The calling Song's

[Historian]

I think that the most beautiful song I have ever heard, pow-wow or non is the Ponca Veterans song, Sonnie Waters version. Talk about sending chills up and down your spin, and it honors our veterans and oue native people that fought for our rights.

Would this be the Ponca World War II Veteran's Honoring Song or the popular Ponca Vietnam Veteran's Honoring Song?

[Mr Bo Jangles]

Would this be the Ponca World War II Veteran's Honoring Song or the popular Ponca Vietnam Veteran's Honoring Song?

....and WHICH Vietnam Veterans song? There's two right? One that was SUPPOSED to be only sung at White Eagle for Poncas.....and the other for whomever.

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Veterans' Songs

There are many Ponca veterans' songs. The structure of them is the same as hethushka songs. I'm not sure, but I think they came about during and after WW II. The Ponca used to or still do sing them, especially on Veterans' Day in November.

The Veterans' song from the Viet Nam era was made by Sylvester Warrior when he met Weldon "Smitty" Smith who returned from service in the Navy. That's the one that is supposed to stay at Ponca.

"No one knows 10% of anything".

[travelingmocs]

The Poncas have many old warrior songs, or what we would call Vet songs from pre-1900's. Mnay of the hethusks songs talk about war deeds, and stuff like that. There was also songs made for the boys would went over to WWI, WWII, and so on.
When Smitty Smith came back from Vietnam, he brought back a flag he got from a ship during battle and gave it to the Poncas. Slyvestor Warrior then made two songs, and I think they were both for post 38. One was put on the drum to travel around for the whole powwow world, and the other was just to stay at White Eagle. But I have heard it sung at few other places...

[WhoMe]

Gledanh and TravelingM,

You know Smitty?

I get a lot of information from that guy. He often can recount information first hand because "He was either there or was told by the person."

[Historian]

The Poncas have many old warrior songs, or what we would call Vet songs from pre-1900's. Mnay of the hethusks songs talk about war deeds, and stuff like that. There was also songs made for the boys would went over to WWI, WWII, and so on.
When Smitty Smith came back from Vietnam, he brought back a flag he got from a ship during battle and gave it to the Poncas. Slyvestor Warrior then made two songs, and I think they were both for post 38. One was put on the drum to travel around for the whole powwow world, and the other was just to stay at White Eagle. But I have heard it sung at few other places...

The Old Warrior songs (pre-1900) among the Ponca that you speak of were divided into those used for Hethuska Dances and dances of other warrior societies like the "Make No Flight" warrior society and the "Not Afraid To Die" warrior society, danced by men only, and those of the Scalp Dances, Victory Dances, or War Mothers Dances, danced only by women, or Soldier Dances danced by men and women.

After the U.S. participated in World War I, the Ponca found new ways of honoring their warriors who had fought on behalf of the U.S. Government. This is when warriors started being called veterans. In 1918, the first “all Indian” American Legion Post called “Buffalo Post 38,” was formed at White Eagle, Oklahoma on the Ponca Reservation. It was called "Buffalo" Post 38 in honor of Bob Buffalohead, a Ponca killed in action during World War I. The Buffalo Post 38 also formed a Ladies Auxiliary, which became a strong organization of women who honored and supported their veterans with Scalp Dances or Soldier Dances, during which many of the old warrior songs were still sung. Often the names of recent veterans were substituted for the warrior names originally put in the song or other words might be changed also. Some Ponca Soldier Dance songs replaced the word for Lakota, an old enemy, for "Kaiser" to make reference to the new enemy in Germany. However, the three Poncas (Richard Hinman, George Calls Him, and Alfred Yellow Bull) that served in World War I and survived to come home, had Scalp Dance Songs written specifically for them and is sung by the modern Ponca Scalp Dance Society that was revived in 1990.

After World War II, the Gives Water Service Club was formed in 1945 on the Southern Ponca Reservation to honor those Poncas who had served in the military during World War II. Often dance celebrations sponsored by the Gives Water Service Club and the Buffalo Post 38 Ladies Auxiliary would incorporate Hethuska dance styles and dance clothes, along with Hethuska songs. However, the dance celebrations would not be considered Hethuska Society events done in the formal manner of years ago, and frequently, new Veteran’s Honoring Songs would be composed in the Hethuska style, to honor the new Ponca veterans. This would be an example of a World War II Veteran's Honoring Song:

Ponca WWII Veteran's Honoring Song
Ponca:
Wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga
Wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga
Wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga
She nu-ziN-ga la, wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga, yo he
Wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga, yo he
Wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga, yo he oi
She nu-ziN-ga la, wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga, yo he
Wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga, yo he
Wi-a-hi-de a-hi be, wa-doM-ba-ga, yo he ya ya

English Translation:
A great distance to fight, behold them.
A great distance to fight, behold them.
A great distance to fight, behold them.
There young men, a great distance to fight, behold them.
A great distance to fight, behold them.
A great distance to fight, behold them.
There young men, a great distance to fight, behold them.
A great distance to fight, behold them.
A great distance to fight, behold them.

Commentary:
“Wiahide ahi wadombaga, wiahide means ‘a great distance’. They went a great distance to fight during the second World War. These songs are composed by the young men who went overseas, meaning they had gone overseas. Wiahide ahi wadombaga, wadombaga means ‘to see them’. In the second part, she nuzinga, ‘young men’ had pulled the bow, meaning they went to fight, overseas to fight.”
(Lamont Brown - 1974)

The incident you speak of concerning "Smitty" coming back from Vietnam has a bit more detail in the story. The flag he brought back was an American Flag that flew on a ship he was on while serving in the Navy in Vietnam. The ship was attacked by NVA rocket fire and sunk, 28 men died on the ship, and Smitty was one of 3 survivors. He gave the flag to the Ponca Hethuska Society, and a result, a Ponca Vietnam Veteran’s Honoring Song was composed by Sylvester Warrior, Harry Buffalohead and Lamont Brown in honor of all Vietnam Veterans, and this Battle Flag in particular.

Ponca Vietnam Veteran's Honoring Song
Ponca:
(vocables in first part of song)
Ha-ska the tho, te-xi-e ya-be
She nu-ziN-ga, nu-doN gya-hi ha-ska the tho
A-hi a-gthi the tho doN-ba-ga

English Translation:
(vocables in first part of song)
One pure flag, a difficult time.
There young men, during war one pure flag brought back.
It is back, behold it.

Commentary:
"‘Behold the flag, our boys fought or had a hard time over it. Our young boys brought the flag back. Look at it’.”
(Lamont Brown - 1974)

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Smitty's "lost face"

Yes, tell Smitty I knew him before his ha ha "face disappeared", and if he reads my ID in the left margin, he'll know who I am.

[travelingmocs]

Thank you very much Historian for setting me straight. Your post are always so jam packed full of information.

And yes WhoMe, I know Smitty, just spent some time hanging out with his daughter and other Texas and Oklahoma people last week at a powwow..

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Kay Yah, which is it?

We've come from calling songs to veterans' songs, and I was wondering whether the "Haska the tho..." song that Historian posted was the one to which you were referring.

[morning water]

The Poncas have many old warrior songs, or what we would call Vet songs from pre-1900's. Mnay of the hethusks songs talk about war deeds, and stuff like that. There was also songs made for the boys would went over to WWI, WWII, and so on.
When Smitty Smith came back from Vietnam, he brought back a flag he got from a ship during battle and gave it to the Poncas. Slyvestor Warrior then made two songs, and I think they were both for post 38. One was put on the drum to travel around for the whole powwow world, and the other was just to stay at White Eagle. But I have heard it sung at few other places...

Who are you and are you Ponca? I am from the Giveswater family just as Lamont. His mother was a Giveswater also. I remember when that Vietnam song was made. Lamont sang it to me at St Charles Illinois and told me to learn it. I did.
The reason I ask is because there are a number of non- Indians that were taken into the Hethuska for awhile and fancy themselves as authorities on our songs and customs. No disrespect intended. I have alot of non-Indian friends but just curious and wanted to know.

[travelingmocs]

I am not Indian, and by no means a expert on Ponca ways. I tried to share about the songs talked about what I know, which Historian pointed is very little. I am a member of of a Hethuska society, but I do not proclaim to know it all. I am still learning.

[TulseyJoe]

Ponca Prayer Song

I found this forum discusion by looking for the "Ponca Prayer Song." I was an active member of a Two-Spirit Native Men's Support Group sponsored by Tulsa (Oklahoma) Indian Health Care Resource Center.

A friend of the Group gave us a powwow drum and we made our own drumsticks. Someone in the group taught us the Song. We sang it at a couple of events here in Tulsa related to work done those who were involved in HIV/AIDS organizations. One event where we performed was for "AIM," AIDS Interfaith Ministry and the other was the "Names Project" which is the AIDS Quilt Memorial program.

I have been to a few powwows here in Tulsa when I had transportation to get to them.

I am a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.

[Historian]

I found this forum discusion by looking for the "Ponca Prayer Song." ...

Tulsey Joe,
Just so that you will know, there are many Prayer Songs the Ponca will sing in different situations and for different reasons. Do you know anything more about the particular Ponca Prayer Song you are looking for?

[morning water]

I am not Indian, and by no means a expert on Ponca ways. I tried to share about the songs talked about what I know, which Historian pointed is very little. I am a member of of a Hethuska society, but I do not proclaim to know it all. I am still learning.

A HETHUSKA???? Why am I not surprised???

[morning water]

Gledanh and TravelingM,

You know Smitty?

I get a lot of information from that guy. He often can recount information first hand because "He was either there or was told by the person."

I have my doubts about his "recollections" especially when it involves my family and what they did or didn't say.