Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The calling Song's

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Gledanh Zhinga
    replied
    A couple of men recorded Harry Buffalohead with some translations, and the recordings were deposited, I believe, in the Library of Congress.
    A friend who has some of this information offered to me some of Harry's interpretation of at least one "calling song":

    Hethuska tha noNzhiNbe u ' noNzhibe
    moNzhoN btuga thaho hethuska gaxabe

    Harry's quotation. "...in this War Dance Society, each time we stop, you know, we call that when we're singing one session, and each time we stop, it's a calling song. The very first one that you sing."

    Harry goes on to say that this is a very old song in which the old people were talking about Wakonda, the Great Spirit. Harry says that initially, the words were, "Wakonda gaxai..." The old translation, therefore, is telling the members to arise, stand up, and that God is the Creator of this earth (moNzhoN). He claims that about 50 or 60 years ago, the word "Hethuska" was inserted in the song, and replaced "Wakonda".

    The following is what I understand. Ideally, a Ponca War Dance Society song group will consist of four sessions of songs, eight songs in each session, and a water break between each. I assume this is what Harry Buffalohead is referring to when he says, "...each time we stop...".

    To my mind, this brings up another thing, "being on time". The hethuska drummers, are supposed to be on time; no late comers to the drum. By the same token, the dancers are supposed to be on time for the parade-in to the circle. I have noticed that sometimes the dancers are too much lollygagging and shooting the breeze while dressing, and because of this, if the dance starts late, it may affect the length of the song sessions. In addition, the order of the songs may be affected. For example, sometimes the drum doesn't get to the charging songs, and often the late start of the dance is to blame, not the singers.

    The bells rung at the Osage IloNskas are used as a signal to get ready, so there should be no excuse for tardniness at their dances.

    "No one knows 10% of anything."

    Leave a comment:


  • master_wuliechsin
    replied
    I was wondering dose any one if the song "No Gee" is a true Ponca calling song. Because when I did a Tail Dance session at National Powwow 13, in Danville, IL. They did it in the Ponca fashsion and was done and taught by a Ponca elder. When they started the session, the calling song was "No Gee."

    Leave a comment:


  • CHEROSAGE
    replied
    Hey there Morning Water. Tell everyone dowm there hi for me.

    As Historian said Thanks for the Family insight. You know my generation, Talk to you all soon. Your Friend.

    Leave a comment:


  • Historian
    replied
    Thank you Morning Water for setting things straight with such detailed information.

    Leave a comment:


  • morning water
    replied
    I read alot of things posted about different Ponca singers and know immediately what your age group is. Ponca singers have long endured and will continue. The Giveswater family are the noted composers of Ponca songs. As history among the Ponca people, it is told to our young who this family is/was and why they are a recognized. Sy, Lamont, and Harry were very good singers. Lamont was the nephew of Albert Waters who for years was the standing Head Singer at Grayhorse and a singer at all the district arbors. He was the elder/leader of the family. Today....there are many of the young men of the Giveswater clan that sing and compose songs. Some of the grandson's and Great-Grandson's of Albert are Jasper Clark, Sonny Waters, Oliver Littlecook, Edwin Littlecook, Steven Littlecook, Charlie Howell, Benjamin
    Waters, OJ Littlecook, Pete Littlecook and other young men. Albert's sons were Alford, Thurman (Ducky), Wilbur. The women singers were Alice Waters Littlecook, Alvina Waters who began singing in the 1920's. Today there are Carol Littelcook, Frances Waters and Billie Waters ( Billie was put in Alice's place at her passing by the family because this was Alice's wish. Metha Collins was a niece of Albert. Her children are the the Collins men and women. Jim, Charlie, and Frank Waters were brothers to Albert.....were also important members of this family. Charlie Waters composed the Ponca Flag song. Jim Waters was the eyapah for Osage dances as well as our Ponca Dances. Belle Waters Clark had daughters and sons also produced singers such as Lamont Brown, Peewee Clark, Wilford Clark and Rudolph Clark, Inez Clark, Bertha Clark.
    So......when I read things about Ponca people I take notice. I read where it says " so and so, was the last of the Ponca singers", I'll be here to say....no......we are still very much alive. I'm proud to be who I am (Ponca) and to know there are so many out there that want to sing our songs. Be careful of what you say......reason?? Lamont and Sy were also pranksters. Of course you wouldn't know that if you weren't family. I went up north a few years back and heard one of the drums singing a Soldier dance song composed by my grandfather. They were singing it as a birthday song. I stood behind that drum and sang that song and got some curious looks from some of the singers. When the song ended, I put money on their drum and told them thank you...and that my grandfather composed it. They were nice and aplogized to me but I told them it was alright. I've been around that drum for over 50 years. Just the topic being discussed is how tribes lose their songs. Think about it.
    Last edited by morning water; 04-05-2006, 10:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TulseyJoe
    replied
    New to powwows.com discussion

    I have a ways to go before I understand who all of the discussion threads are regulated and how many different topics there are here.

    As far as "lifestyle" is concerned, I don't have a "lifestyle:" I have a life.

    One's sexual orientation is just that and it has no connection with one's lifestyle as a Native American.

    Leave a comment:


  • travelingmocs
    replied
    Hate to post this but maybe the "Two Spirit " subject, no matter how vaild should be move out of the straight dance forum and moved to life stlye or somewhere like that. But if your wanting information on prayer songs, you should contact Historian.

    Leave a comment:


  • SmokeEater
    replied
    Originally posted by TulseyJoe
    For those who don't know, "Two-Spirit" is now a common term applied to those who are homosexual in their sexual orientation. Many tribes do not want to admit to the Anglo-whites a lot of what they believe because those beliefs might be misinterpreted. Many tribes stopped accepting homosexuality as being a normal sexual orientation when they adopted Christianity as the source of their spirituality.

    IMHO, there is absolutely no conflict between true Native American Spirituality and what Jesus the Christ Himself taught. And He never said one word about homosexuals as far as what is recorded in the Bible.

    Tommy Chesbro, who used to be the main leader of the Tulsa Two-Spirit Native American Men's Support Group, one day was practicing with the drum at his home and all of a sudden some words came to him which he had never heard sung before. So, he memorized them and at the next Two-Spirit meeting, he played the new song.
    Ironic that this is under the "Straight" dance thread. But I digress.

    Leave a comment:


  • TulseyJoe
    replied
    Spirit inspired songs

    For those who don't know, "Two-Spirit" is now a common term applied to those who are homosexual in their sexual orientation. Many tribes do not want to admit to the Anglo-whites a lot of what they believe because those beliefs might be misinterpreted. Many tribes stopped accepting homosexuality as being a normal sexual orientation when they adopted Christianity as the source of their spirituality.

    IMHO, there is absolutely no conflict between true Native American Spirituality and what Jesus the Christ Himself taught. And He never said one word about homosexuals as far as what is recorded in the Bible.

    Tommy Chesbro, who used to be the main leader of the Tulsa Two-Spirit Native American Men's Support Group, one day was practicing with the drum at his home and all of a sudden some words came to him which he had never heard sung before. So, he memorized them and at the next Two-Spirit meeting, he played the new song.

    The weekend after that night was the weekend of the Annual Cherokee National Holiday (Labor Day weekend).

    At the next meeting, one of the members whose nickname is "Fish" told about going to the activities down in Tahlequah, Oklahoma.

    Fish said he heard the very same song which Tommy sang, and it was word for word with the same tune. Fish also said what the song was about. (I don't remember the explanation at this time.)

    Tommy said, "Well, maybe I did hear it before. And that's why I could sing it."

    I was prompted in my spirit to tell him in front of the group, "No, Tommy, you had never heard the song before. It was that Spirit wanted you to know the song directly taught from the Creator. "

    I have found in my studies of Native American Spirituality and songs sang with the drum in various tribes around the country, many of them sing the very same songs which has passed on down orally through the centuries and while they know the interpretation of the song or its basic meaning in their spirit, they don't know the language from which it originated. That is like the Pentecostals who have the gift of interpreting a message given in an unlearned language by another member of the congregation. The language exists; but, neither person has ever heard anyone speak who was a native speaker of the language.

    Leave a comment:


  • TulseyJoe
    replied
    Ponca Prayer Song

    The one we sang had the words which another forum member posted.

    Ponca Prayer Song

    Ponca:
    (vocables in first part of song)
    He-thu-ska, te Wa-koN-da ga-a-xo-be
    A-ho shoN ha the, yo he ye

    I do remember that much of the song.

    Leave a comment:


  • travelingmocs
    replied
    Well it seems that I have offened someone, and I will say I am sorry.

    Leave a comment:


  • morning water
    replied
    Originally posted by WhoMe
    Gledanh and TravelingM,

    You know Smitty?

    I get a lot of information from that guy. He often can recount information first hand because "He was either there or was told by the person."
    I have my doubts about his "recollections" especially when it involves my family and what they did or didn't say.

    Leave a comment:


  • morning water
    replied
    Originally posted by travelingmocs
    I am not Indian, and by no means a expert on Ponca ways. I tried to share about the songs talked about what I know, which Historian pointed is very little. I am a member of of a Hethuska society, but I do not proclaim to know it all. I am still learning.
    A HETHUSKA???? Why am I not surprised???

    Leave a comment:


  • Historian
    replied
    Originally posted by TulseyJoe
    I found this forum discusion by looking for the "Ponca Prayer Song." ...
    Tulsey Joe,
    Just so that you will know, there are many Prayer Songs the Ponca will sing in different situations and for different reasons. Do you know anything more about the particular Ponca Prayer Song you are looking for?

    Leave a comment:


  • TulseyJoe
    replied
    Ponca Prayer Song

    I found this forum discusion by looking for the "Ponca Prayer Song." I was an active member of a Two-Spirit Native Men's Support Group sponsored by Tulsa (Oklahoma) Indian Health Care Resource Center.

    A friend of the Group gave us a powwow drum and we made our own drumsticks. Someone in the group taught us the Song. We sang it at a couple of events here in Tulsa related to work done those who were involved in HIV/AIDS organizations. One event where we performed was for "AIM," AIDS Interfaith Ministry and the other was the "Names Project" which is the AIDS Quilt Memorial program.

    I have been to a few powwows here in Tulsa when I had transportation to get to them.

    I am a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.

    Leave a comment:

Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

Related Topics

Collapse

  • Pohonasin Gentgeen
    song rights
    by Pohonasin Gentgeen
    in looking at some of the other discussions, i thought this might make for a good one. have any of you ever had problems with songs you sing because you learned you didnt have "the right" to sing it??? for instance, my drum back home had a problem about a year ago because we learned a song...
    06-06-2000, 10:06 AM
  • Gray Fawn
    Gourd Dance Song Order
    by Gray Fawn
    Hi gentlemen. I have a question that I hope ya all can help with. I know the first four songs and last four soungs of the Gourd dance have to be in a particular order. Can any one give that order correctly and a litlle background on each one? I belive the 1st four are 1)calling song 2)White Bear 3)Barking...
    05-17-2001, 10:52 PM
  • hobbs49
    A Trot Song Question
    by hobbs49
    I've been listening to a tape in my car, "Ponca Tribal Songs" with Lamont Brown, Sylvester Warrior, Albert Waters, and Henry Snake as the singers. They sing three trot songs, the usual songs that one may commonly hear on a recording or at a powwow. I think that Lamont Brown might have even...
    04-29-2008, 07:40 AM
  • DCP
    Composing Songs
    by DCP
    I have been told by some that one has to earn the right to compose songs. I have been told by others that if a song "comes to you" it ought to be used. I would enjoy hearing some feedback on this.
    06-27-2000, 12:03 AM
  • WhoMe
    Song selection
    by WhoMe
    What songs do you sing:

    1. Traditional tribal songs
    2. New compositions from other drum groups
    3. Your own drums' songs

    If asked to start a song, do you have a favorite stand by? What is it?
    04-22-2008, 01:38 PM

Trending

Collapse

There are no results that meet this criteria.

Sidebar Ad

Collapse
Working...
X