The calling Song's

[travelingmocs]

Well it seems that I have offened someone, and I will say I am sorry.

[TulseyJoe]

Ponca Prayer Song

The one we sang had the words which another forum member posted.

Ponca Prayer Song

Ponca:
(vocables in first part of song)
He-thu-ska, te Wa-koN-da ga-a-xo-be
A-ho shoN ha the, yo he ye

I do remember that much of the song.

[TulseyJoe]

Spirit inspired songs

For those who don't know, "Two-Spirit" is now a common term applied to those who are homosexual in their sexual orientation. Many tribes do not want to admit to the Anglo-whites a lot of what they believe because those beliefs might be misinterpreted. Many tribes stopped accepting homosexuality as being a normal sexual orientation when they adopted Christianity as the source of their spirituality.

IMHO, there is absolutely no conflict between true Native American Spirituality and what Jesus the Christ Himself taught. And He never said one word about homosexuals as far as what is recorded in the Bible.

Tommy Chesbro, who used to be the main leader of the Tulsa Two-Spirit Native American Men's Support Group, one day was practicing with the drum at his home and all of a sudden some words came to him which he had never heard sung before. So, he memorized them and at the next Two-Spirit meeting, he played the new song.

The weekend after that night was the weekend of the Annual Cherokee National Holiday (Labor Day weekend).

At the next meeting, one of the members whose nickname is "Fish" told about going to the activities down in Tahlequah, Oklahoma.

Fish said he heard the very same song which Tommy sang, and it was word for word with the same tune. Fish also said what the song was about. (I don't remember the explanation at this time.)

Tommy said, "Well, maybe I did hear it before. And that's why I could sing it."

I was prompted in my spirit to tell him in front of the group, "No, Tommy, you had never heard the song before. It was that Spirit wanted you to know the song directly taught from the Creator. "

I have found in my studies of Native American Spirituality and songs sang with the drum in various tribes around the country, many of them sing the very same songs which has passed on down orally through the centuries and while they know the interpretation of the song or its basic meaning in their spirit, they don't know the language from which it originated. That is like the Pentecostals who have the gift of interpreting a message given in an unlearned language by another member of the congregation. The language exists; but, neither person has ever heard anyone speak who was a native speaker of the language.

[SmokeEater]

For those who don't know, "Two-Spirit" is now a common term applied to those who are homosexual in their sexual orientation. Many tribes do not want to admit to the Anglo-whites a lot of what they believe because those beliefs might be misinterpreted. Many tribes stopped accepting homosexuality as being a normal sexual orientation when they adopted Christianity as the source of their spirituality.

IMHO, there is absolutely no conflict between true Native American Spirituality and what Jesus the Christ Himself taught. And He never said one word about homosexuals as far as what is recorded in the Bible.

Tommy Chesbro, who used to be the main leader of the Tulsa Two-Spirit Native American Men's Support Group, one day was practicing with the drum at his home and all of a sudden some words came to him which he had never heard sung before. So, he memorized them and at the next Two-Spirit meeting, he played the new song.

Ironic that this is under the "Straight" dance thread. But I digress.

[travelingmocs]

Hate to post this but maybe the "Two Spirit " subject, no matter how vaild should be move out of the straight dance forum and moved to life stlye or somewhere like that. But if your wanting information on prayer songs, you should contact Historian.

[TulseyJoe]

New to powwows.com discussion

I have a ways to go before I understand who all of the discussion threads are regulated and how many different topics there are here.

As far as "lifestyle" is concerned, I don't have a "lifestyle:" I have a life.

One's sexual orientation is just that and it has no connection with one's lifestyle as a Native American.

[morning water]

I read alot of things posted about different Ponca singers and know immediately what your age group is. Ponca singers have long endured and will continue. The Giveswater family are the noted composers of Ponca songs. As history among the Ponca people, it is told to our young who this family is/was and why they are a recognized. Sy, Lamont, and Harry were very good singers. Lamont was the nephew of Albert Waters who for years was the standing Head Singer at Grayhorse and a singer at all the district arbors. He was the elder/leader of the family. Today....there are many of the young men of the Giveswater clan that sing and compose songs. Some of the grandson's and Great-Grandson's of Albert are Jasper Clark, Sonny Waters, Oliver Littlecook, Edwin Littlecook, Steven Littlecook, Charlie Howell, Benjamin
Waters, OJ Littlecook, Pete Littlecook and other young men. Albert's sons were Alford, Thurman (Ducky), Wilbur. The women singers were Alice Waters Littlecook, Alvina Waters who began singing in the 1920's. Today there are Carol Littelcook, Frances Waters and Billie Waters ( Billie was put in Alice's place at her passing by the family because this was Alice's wish. Metha Collins was a niece of Albert. Her children are the the Collins men and women. Jim, Charlie, and Frank Waters were brothers to Albert.....were also important members of this family. Charlie Waters composed the Ponca Flag song. Jim Waters was the eyapah for Osage dances as well as our Ponca Dances. Belle Waters Clark had daughters and sons also produced singers such as Lamont Brown, Peewee Clark, Wilford Clark and Rudolph Clark, Inez Clark, Bertha Clark.
So......when I read things about Ponca people I take notice. I read where it says " so and so, was the last of the Ponca singers", I'll be here to say....no......we are still very much alive. I'm proud to be who I am (Ponca) and to know there are so many out there that want to sing our songs. Be careful of what you say......reason?? Lamont and Sy were also pranksters. Of course you wouldn't know that if you weren't family. I went up north a few years back and heard one of the drums singing a Soldier dance song composed by my grandfather. They were singing it as a birthday song. I stood behind that drum and sang that song and got some curious looks from some of the singers. When the song ended, I put money on their drum and told them thank you...and that my grandfather composed it. They were nice and aplogized to me but I told them it was alright. I've been around that drum for over 50 years. Just the topic being discussed is how tribes lose their songs. Think about it.

[Historian]

Thank you Morning Water for setting things straight with such detailed information.

[CHEROSAGE]

Hey there Morning Water. Tell everyone dowm there hi for me.

As Historian said Thanks for the Family insight. You know my generation, Talk to you all soon. Your Friend.

[_wuliechsin_]

I was wondering dose any one if the song "No Gee" is a true Ponca calling song. Because when I did a Tail Dance session at National Powwow 13, in Danville, IL. They did it in the Ponca fashsion and was done and taught by a Ponca elder. When they started the session, the calling song was "No Gee."

[Gledanh Zhinga]

A couple of men recorded Harry Buffalohead with some translations, and the recordings were deposited, I believe, in the Library of Congress.
A friend who has some of this information offered to me some of Harry's interpretation of at least one "calling song":

Hethuska tha noNzhiNbe u ' noNzhibe
moNzhoN btuga thaho hethuska gaxabe

Harry's quotation. "...in this War Dance Society, each time we stop, you know, we call that when we're singing one session, and each time we stop, it's a calling song. The very first one that you sing."

Harry goes on to say that this is a very old song in which the old people were talking about Wakonda, the Great Spirit. Harry says that initially, the words were, "Wakonda gaxai..." The old translation, therefore, is telling the members to arise, stand up, and that God is the Creator of this earth (moNzhoN). He claims that about 50 or 60 years ago, the word "Hethuska" was inserted in the song, and replaced "Wakonda".

The following is what I understand. Ideally, a Ponca War Dance Society song group will consist of four sessions of songs, eight songs in each session, and a water break between each. I assume this is what Harry Buffalohead is referring to when he says, "...each time we stop...".

To my mind, this brings up another thing, "being on time". The hethuska drummers, are supposed to be on time; no late comers to the drum. By the same token, the dancers are supposed to be on time for the parade-in to the circle. I have noticed that sometimes the dancers are too much lollygagging and shooting the breeze while dressing, and because of this, if the dance starts late, it may affect the length of the song sessions. In addition, the order of the songs may be affected. For example, sometimes the drum doesn't get to the charging songs, and often the late start of the dance is to blame, not the singers.

The bells rung at the Osage IloNskas are used as a signal to get ready, so there should be no excuse for tardniness at their dances.

"No one knows 10% of anything."

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Post Script. Master Wuliechsin,

I believe you might be referring to "noNzhi" which indicates "arise" or "stand up". "NoNzhibe" is in the song from my last post, but it is also in many other Hethuska songs.

[_wuliechsin_]

Post Script. Master Wuliechsin,

I believe you might be referring to "noNzhi" which indicates "arise" or "stand up". "NoNzhibe" is in the song from my last post, but it is also in many other Hethuska songs.

That's it. Thank you very much for the info. I greatly appericate it.

Much respect.

Wuliechsin

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Master Wuliechsin,

Working with another language, it is difficult to Romanize it. The closest we have in English to the "zh" sound as in noNzhi, in the "s" in the word, "pleasure". Most of us writing on this forum have begun to use a capital N for a nasalized "n". The "th" as Poncas use it, is only slightly different than an English "l" by moving the tongue a bit on the palate.

[_wuliechsin_]

Master Wuliechsin,

Working with another language, it is difficult to Romanize it. The closest we have in English to the "zh" sound as in noNzhi, in the "s" in the word, "pleasure". Most of us writing on this forum have begun to use a capital N for a nasalized "n". The "th" as Poncas use it, is only slightly different than an English "l" by moving the tongue a bit on the palate.

Thank you for the information. Do you have any more information on how to learn Ponca?