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  • #46
    Master Wuliechsin,

    Sorry. I am not fluent. I have learned the pronunciation, so that I could sing the songs. I have heard that lessons were being given in White Eagle, but I don't have any concrete information on it.

    A huge, rare book titled "The Cehiga Language" was published in 1890 by the Washington Government Printing Office, through the Department of the Interior, J. W. Powell in Charge. The book was authored by James Owen Dorsey. It contains lots of Cehiga (Ponca/Omaha) text (stories) with an attempt to give the English words underneath the Cehiga, so that the reader may gain an idea of the syntax. Following that, the author gives a separate, all English version of each story, which he calls the translation.

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    • #47
      One of the best bookfinders that I have found on the net is www.dealoz.com. Apparently, "The Cehiga Language"was republished in 1990, and through the Rare Books portion of campusi.com, several copies are available, old and new.
      Last edited by Gledanh Zhinga; 06-27-2009, 09:09 AM. Reason: new e-address

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      • #48
        Ponca tribal singer speaks......

        ???
        Last edited by ponca49king; 11-28-2009, 11:17 PM. Reason: ???

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        • #49
          Thank you Ponca49king, for your input. Very interesting.

          "Be good, be kind, help each other."
          "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

          --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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          • #50
            Ponca Language

            I am a member of a drum group in the New Orleans area. I have only been singing for three years and I am enjoying every minute of it. In the last year I decided I would like to find out what the words mean. I have three CD's compiled with Harry doing some translations. He doesn't cover all the songs from the Ponca War Dance songs Vol I & II. I have had to go on my own and look for the meanings.
            I find that Alice Fletcher, who lived with the Omaha Nation for about thirty years off and on is probably very reliable. It is reported that the Omahas "talk like Poncas" and unless you grew up speaking either one you won't be able to really see much difference. She has a book titled " a Study of Omaha Indian Music" (published in 1893) that has about seventy or so word songs that she translates.
            I haven't found many books on translations so far but I am still looking.
            thanks,
            Dhmaverick

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            • #51
              The following may be of interest.

              "Omaha Indian Music features traditional Omaha music from the 1890s and 1980s. The multiformat ethnographic field collection contains 44 wax cylinder recordings collected by Francis La Flesche and Alice Cunningham Fletcher between 1895 and 1897, 323 songs and speeches from the 1983 Omaha harvest celebration pow-wow, and 25 songs and speeches from the 1985 Hethu'shka Society concert at the Library of Congress. Segments from interviews with members of the Omaha tribe conducted in 1983 and 1999 provide contextual information for the songs and speeches included in the collection. Supplementing the collection are black-and-white and color photographs taken during the 1983 pow-wow and the 1985 concert, as well as research materials that include fieldnotes and tape logs pertaining to the pow-wow."

              Omaha Indian Music
              Last edited by Historian; 06-20-2009, 07:33 AM.

              "Be good, be kind, help each other."
              "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

              --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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              • #52
                Regarding translations

                linguistically the Ponca, Omaha, Otoe, Osage, and Ho-Chunk speak varying dialects of the same language that are generally mutually intelligible (Osage having the most differences from the others).

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                • #53
                  Legal,
                  You left out the Kaw (Kanza) which have a cognate language with the others you mentioned, especially with the Osage. Let's also include the Quapaw.

                  I spent part of a 1960 summer with Bill Sr., Bill Jr., and Metha Collins at their farm southwest of Ponca City. They had a brief visit from the Omaha tribal chairman, Alfred Gilpin, who was in town for the Ponca Powwow. I can tell you that the Ponca and Omaha speak the same language. Gilpin and the Collins family were going at it "like a house afire." Gilpin had one comment in English, and that in a jocular sense. He told the Collins' that they spoke the language a little slower that the Omaha, and he suggested that they had developed a ha ha southern drawl.

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                  • #54
                    Yes,
                    I think also Kaskaskia, Sac, and a few others too. I only speak from what I have personal experience of, unfortunately I live up in the Northwoods now and don't have the steady stream of Okies around me that I once did.

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                    • #55
                      FYI

                      Siouan Language Family

                      A. Western Siouan Languages

                      Missouri Valley Siouan Languages

                      1. Crow

                      2. Hidatsa

                      Mississippi Valley Siouan Languages

                      1. Mandan

                      2. Dakotan Languages
                      a) Assiniboine (Nakota)
                      b) Stoney (Nakoda)
                      c) Dakota; Lakota

                      3. Dhegiha Languages
                      a) Kansa (Kaw)
                      b) Omaha; Ponca
                      c) Osage
                      d) Quapaw

                      4. Chiwerean Languages
                      a) Chiwere (Iowa; Otoe; Missouria)
                      b) Ho-chunk (Winnebago)

                      5. Ohio Valley Siouan Languages
                      a) Biloxi
                      b) Ofo (Ofogoula)
                      c) Tutelo (Saponi)

                      B. Eastern Siouan Languages

                      1. Catawba

                      2. Woccon

                      "Be good, be kind, help each other."
                      "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

                      --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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                      • #56
                        Let us note that "Siouan" is a term made up probably by a linguist/antropologist for convenience. There are over 150,000 Sioux; ie., Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, and for example, very few
                        Kanza. If the situation were reversed and the Kanza numbered
                        150,000, the anthropologists might have called the language family "Kansan" rather that Siouan.

                        The anthropologists have also given names to other groups and phenomena.

                        For instance, the "Anasazi" are ancient puebloans to the archeologists, a name of convenience, said to indicate "ancient ones" in Navajo.

                        The Rio Grande pueblo tribes are lumped together and called "Pueblos," even though each village considers itself separate from the others. Some of the languages are mutually intelligible; some are not. Pueblo is a Spanish word meaning "village."

                        Another one is Mimbres, which is a town in southern New Mexico, also a Spanish word meaning "Osier willows." The archeologists use Mimbres to describe an ancient native culture which made unique pottery.

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