Contemporary Dance

[WhoMe]

Hmmmm?

Anybody ever notice that at the Mega powwows, there are a lot of northern dancers and dancers not connected with straight dancing who serve as judges?

Is this good or bad?

In my opinion, these judges tend to pick winners who aren't necessarily good straight dancers. Rather they pick dancers who spend a lot of time on the powwow trail competing, are familiar faces and names.

Whatcha' think?

Is this a valid statement?

[osagesooner]

Whome, yes it's a valid statement. Not too many people are educated on the finer points of straight dance and it sort of becomes a "popularity contest". Not only does that happen up north alot, it also happens around here in oklahoma, whereas members belonging to "non-straight dancing tribes" are judging. It all comes down to the typical cliche, "It's all about who you know".

[tribaltagz]

Old Style is where it's at!

Nothing keener than seeing an ultra smooth old style dancer out there! Anymore it seems when I get outside of Oklahoma the only difference between Fancy, Straight, and Northern Tradish is their outfits. I think most folks who don't come from straight dance don't know how to judge it, though. To me the dance is more than just the clothes and you can still be kickin' it and stay true to the style. Just my opinion.

[cakewalk]

Well heres the first question...What do people think about Fancy Dance? Of course everyone should know that fancy dance didnt start out like that. No matter what it is EVERYTHING changes,I bet there was a time when the ol fancy war dancers were watching these young guys spinning around looking like they were spazzing out...and now brings us to today. Everyone has thier own style of dancing,some like to dance ol style some like to just plain bust a move. If its for flash and glamour then thats thier own thing, You know and I know that judges now adays dont pick dancers who just dance..its got the be THIER NAME~THIER OUTFIT~ETC...What do you expect out of a powwow where people are dancing for that green paper. They will do what they need to do to be noticed. But straight dancing will be around..Old Style or Contemp. Just because someone might get a little "wild" out on the arena doesnt mean to panic. But I like to see an ol timer bust a move OLD style of course.....

i think this person put this very well. i like to think that i am a contemporary dancer and alot of you would also undoubtedly put me in that genre. but i dance the way the song makes me dance. i dont dance to a song i let the song dance through me. i dont really think any of this makes sense to you but it is just something that i felt like i need to say. with old style dancing, i like it and i respect it and i enjoy watching it, i just choose not to dance this way because in my eyes i dont see an expression of dance in it, personality. when i watch other straight dancers you can completly expect what or how there gonna dance no matter what, even if the song is sung fast slow or just by a drum that doesnt sing well. and to me that is not dancing, yes it is danceing but there is no life in it.....either way im not making any sense to you all and i dont really feel like im supposed to, just saying whats in my heart.

[cakewalk]

Hmmmm?

Anybody ever notice that at the Mega powwows, there are a lot of northern dancers and dancers not connected with straight dancing who serve as judges?

Is this good or bad?

In my opinion, these judges tend to pick winners who aren't necessarily good straight dancers. Rather they pick dancers who spend a lot of time on the powwow trail competing, are familiar faces and names.

Whatcha' think?

Is this a valid statement?

i have a big opinion on judging. i dont like people who say only people who know about this dance should judge, because all you get is old style dancers who when. you cant get judges whos tribe are affiliated with the dance because only the tribe they are will win. and you cant really get people who only go to "mega" powwows because you only get "mega" powwow winners. everyonce in awhile you can find someone who watches the dancers and looks for uniqueness and sees someone dancing hard. (like i said above, there are those who dance hard but they always dance the same and there are those who "dance". so what i am saying is that no matter what or who or how you pick em', your not going to please anyone.....and there is never going to be relief in the matter.....now for matters of incremenating myself i will "shut up!"

[LuncheonMeat49]

Out of all the straight dance videos on here, the best is the golden age at Red Earth. Most of the men on it haven't changed their styles too much over the years. They dance with maturity.

Those big dances are going to change, but what matters most to me is a person's conduct and maturity at tribal-specific dances.

[WhoMe]

i have a big opinion on judging. i dont like people who say only people who know about this dance should judge, because all you get is old style dancers who when. you cant get judges whos tribe are affiliated with the dance because only the tribe they are will win. ...there is never going to be relief in the matter....

cakewalk,

I hear what you are saying. A lot of younger dancers will be looked over for dancing hard, if only knowledgable judges judge.

Thus, it makes it hard for you to win with your style of dancing?

You're right. When it comes to contest dancing, there is no pleasing everyone.

[bill dance]

Whome, yes it's a valid statement. Not too many people are educated on the finer points of straight dance and it sort of becomes a "popularity contest". Not only does that happen up north alot, it also happens around here in oklahoma, whereas members belonging to "non-straight dancing tribes" are judging. It all comes down to the typical cliche, "It's all about who you know".

This is happing at every powwow.

[WhoMe]

This is happing at every powwow.

What are some solutions to making a contest fairer for all contestants.

Any suggestions?

[Fat Albert]

How to make them contests fair? How about don't have them! How many athletes went to the Olympics only to come home disappointed? That is supposed to be as fair as it gets. Fair is impossible unless you are using something that can be measured like time in a sprint. As long as the contest is something that is up for interpretation (how graceful or what are good looking clothes) it will be unfair. In my family, some days you win and some days you don't... but you always leave home with enough gas and cash to get back without having to depend on prize money that might not come your way. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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It is hard though because in these online discussions we were talking about the lack of knowledge being a problem for straight dancing and in this discussion we are talking about bringing in judges who are unknowledgeable in order to make it fair??? What’s up with that?? It is a catch 22 and as long as people are dancing for these green reasons, you will never make them happy.<o:p></o:p>
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Now before everyone gets upset, let me just say that I understand the contest thing. My family contests and typically place when they go to contest dances. My point is that contest is changing things both in the culture and the people. One time my brother went because he figured he could make rent money and since there were only three in the category it was a lock that he would get first, knowing everyone that signed up. He got last to people he always beats and that was the first and only time I have ever seen my brother ask to see the numbers. I guess there was more on the line than good feelings. I understand the guy that got first place gave my brother all of his winnings but how common is that?
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Maybe the answer is on the individual dancer. Dance like you don’t care if you get last then you have lost nothing so it does not matter if it was fair or not. We have all been to a dance where at grand entry you are able to pick first, second and third so why pretend that will ever stop?<o:p></o:p>
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Finally, did anyone else see the article in Whispering Wind magazine about rules for contests? We were laughing at something that said something like the head judge’s decision is FINAL but if there is a problem the AD’s decision is FINAL but if there is a problem the Committee’s decision is FINAL. No wonder people get upset!!!<o:p></o:p>

[WhoMe]

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It is hard though because in these online discussions we were talking about the lack of knowledge being a problem for straight dancing and in this discussion we are talking about bringing in judges who are unknowledgeable in order to make it fair??? What’s up with that?? It is a catch 22 and as long as people are dancing for these green reasons, you will never make them happy.<o:p></o:p>
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Fat,

(Can I call you Fat?) *L

There is a lot of truth in these words. Thank you for posting them.

[Fat Albert]

Who Me: You can call me fat but don't call me late for dinner! Thanks for the support on that.