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  • War Dance or Hethuska

    I remember last year there was a discussion on the War Dance and who had the rights to do it. Also, who gave the rights to the different white groups around the country.

    I cant find the thread, does anyone know where it is? Most likely it was under a completely different title since SOME people back then used to twist everything that was written about the white groups.

    If anyone has any other info about the white groups please PM me or something. Im interested to know who received the right, from who they got it and when. Im doing a little research to get something off of my back that has been bothering me.

    thanks all,
    bjjb
    There are 2 types of people in the world...
    Really stupid people who think they are smart
    and
    Really smart people who think they are smart.

  • #2
    There is a good article about the Hethuska on this site. Here is a quick link: http://www.powwows.com/dance/hethuska.shtml
    "Friends don't let friends drink decaf..."
    Wakalapi's $49 unlimited phone service www.49deal.com

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    • #3
      I know there was one on gourd dancing, could that be the one you are thinking of?
      "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

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      • #4
        "Passing the Drum" of the Hethuska

        Concerning the "Passing of the Drum" as the Ponca refer to the gift of the Ponca Hethuska songs and traditions to another organization, I can tell you the following.

        Shortly after the Ponca were forcably moved from their homeland near Niobrara, Nebraska to Oklahoma in 1877, they passed the drum (gave permission to perform the Hethuska Dance Ceremony with it's rights and traditions) to their friends, the Greyhorse Village of the Osage tribe, and to the Kaw tribe. The Kaw, after a period of time, could not continue the traditions. Instead of letting their drum "die", the Kaw gave away their rights to perform the Hethuska Dance Ceremony to the Pawhuska Village of the Osage in 1884. Eventually, the Hominy Creek Village of Osage learned the dance ceremony and traditions from the Pawhuska Village later on.

        In 1916, a group of Poncas "passed the drum" to the Comanche tribe. However, by the time of The Depression in the early 1930s, neither the Comanche nor the Ponca could continue to hold their dances and perform their benevolent tasks as basic survival became critical. The last Hethuska dance done by the Ponca at that time was in 1935.

        Interestingly, due to a variety of reasons including the discovery of oil on their land, the three villages of Osage were able to function through The Depression and were able to hold their version of the Hethuska Dance Ceremony which by now they called the Inlonschka Society (or "Ingthonushkon" meaning "those who partake in the nature of thunder") in their language. During this time that the Ponca Hethuska Society lay dormant, the Ponca singers were still called upon to sing the Hethuska Songs at the Osage Inlonschka Dance Ceremonies, thus preserving the songs.

        In the early 1950s, the late Sylvester Warrior set out to see if the Ponca Hethuska Society could be revived. Sylvester had a personal interest, since his grandfather, Standing Buffalo was the Nudahonga or Headman of the Ponca Hethuska Society in the late 1800s when the organization passed the drum to the Greyhorse Village of Osage. After gathering the information from Ponca elders, Sylvester Warrior was given permission to revive the Hethuska Society in 1957 and became it's Headman.

        By 1961, the Ponca Hethuska Society elected to again pass the drum to the Comanche and thus revived their version of the dormant tradition of the Hethuska Society which they called the Comanche War Dance Organization. Since that time, the Ponca Hethuska Society has passed the drum to only four other organizations, The California Hethuska Society, the Texas Lone Star War Dance Society, the A.I.S. Hethuska Society, and the Chicago White Bear Hethuska Society.

        "Be good, be kind, help each other."
        "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

        --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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        • #5
          subject: The Hethushka Society

          1
          Last edited by ern_dawg2003; 02-25-2012, 01:07 PM.
          >>>~~~~*~~~~<<< THUNDERHILL >>>~~~~*~~~~<<<

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          • #6
            (quote) Interestingly, due to a variety of reasons including the discovery of oil on their land, the three villages of Osage were able to function through the Depression and were able to hold theire version of the Hethuska Dance Ceremony which by now they called the Inlonschka Society (or "ingthonuskon" meaning "those who partake in the nature of thudner") in their language.

            Just some fyi, from what I understand is that the Inlonshka Dance means "dance or movement of the first son".

            On another note, we still have our dances every june, and we as participants of this dance always give credit to where credit is due, without the omaha, the ponca, or the kaw, we would not have this dance today.

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            • #7
              But, I'm wonderin' how did the Ponca started the Hethushka, when the UmonHon ( Omaha) originated the society way back before the ponca was moved out of Oklahoma.
              From my what I have been taught and researched, the Ponca did not start the Hethuska. The Omaha and the Ponca were part of the same tribe when the Hethuska was started. The Ponca were a clan within the larger Omaha tribe. In the middle 1800s when the Ponca broke away from the Omaha and started their own tribe, they brought the Hethuska Society traditions with them. From that time, the Omaha and the Ponca have both had the Hethuska traditions and have evolved those Hethuska traditions seperately from one another.

              Should any other readers have an interest, there is a very useful text with well documented information concerning the relationship of the Omaha and the Ponca.

              "The Omaha Tribe". 1911, by Alice C. Fletcher and Francis LaFlesche, 27th Annual Report for 1905-06, Bureau of American Ethnology, Smithsonian Institution, Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C.

              "Be good, be kind, help each other."
              "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

              --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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              • #8
                The society the Hethushka, was actually pronounced "Nonzhi ha Leshka" which actually talks about a group of warriors who went on war partys and expiditions, their hair was braided, and upon retuning the cooks of the tribe would cook a certain part of a dog, for the retuning society warriors. Before they would sit down to partake of this food. The warriors would unbraid their hair and have it hang past their face as they ate their sacred food.
                This is very interesting, I have not heard this explanation before.
                Last edited by Historian; 05-14-2007, 10:29 PM.

                "Be good, be kind, help each other."
                "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

                --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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                • #9
                  Interesting to note, if the Omaha are the originators of the war dance, like they say at their powwow, how come they have side drums, gourd dance and other crazy contests at their annual celebration, i think next year is their 200th(snicker)powwow. And another thing, ive been up there a couple times, why is it they gotta brag about being the first war dance? Shoot, they dont even know how to tail dance. Just my 2 cents.

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                  • #10
                    Just some fyi, from what I understand is that the Inlonshka Dance means "dance or movement of the first son".
                    I agree that the Osage word "Inlonschka" used today means "dance or movement of the first or eldest son".

                    However, the much older version of the word used in the 1800s which I quoted as, "Ingthonushkon" means "those who partake in the nature of thunder".

                    "Be good, be kind, help each other."
                    "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

                    --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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                    • #11
                      The Omaha Tribe". 1911, by Alice C. Fletcher and Francis LaFlesche, 27th Annual Report for 1905-06, Bureau of American Ethnology, Smithsonian Institution, Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C.

                      Grandpa told me that Fletcher and LaFlesche dont know what they are talkin about.

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                      • #12
                        the ugly monster rears its head again

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                        • #13
                          ugly monster? where?
                          "Deep Thoughts" By Jack Handy

                          "It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man."

                          "I wish I had a dollar for every time I spent a dollar, because then, yahoo!, I'd have all my money back."

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                          • #14
                            MaggieB:
                            Calm down he is refering to a different Monster. Breathe deaply, drink a cold one(take one for me also), and it's all good.
                            BOB

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                            • #15
                              So how does the Pawnee Iruska fit into the historic timeline?

                              "Be good, be kind, help each other."
                              "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

                              --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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