Vest/Bandolier Question

[_wuliechsin_]

I have a question about wearing bandoliers with a vest. After 8 months I am finally finished with my ribbon suit. I have a lot of respect for people who can do ribbon work. Is it apporiate to wear the bandoliers under the vest or over the vest, or do you not wear them at all? Is it dancer's perference or is there a meaning behind it? Also do you pin the love bundles/feathers to the vest?

[Tx_grass_dancer]

Well I don't wear a vest but from what I have observed as with lots of other things everyone is diffrent. I have seen vests and no bandoliers, vests with one, vests with both, vests with breastplates and no bandoliers, vests with breastplates and bandoliers. I don't know if there is any significance behind any of it or if it another one of those things that is a matter of personal prefrence and its just what looks good.
Personaly I like the look of a breastplate and a vest with no bandoliers.
As for the love bundles, since I dont wear a vest mine attach right to my bandoliers. With vests I have seen them pinned directly to the vest and have seen them left out completely.

[_wuliechsin_]

Thank you for the info

[Historian]

Many times the Straight Dance vests that are seen being worn in old photos, have a good amount of beadwork on them. Ponca and Pawnee for example, often would have two or three 2 inch wide strips of beadwork up the back, and two coming down the front, and often having another strip along the bottom edge. While there may be some that wore bandoliers over the vest, I have observed, and have been told by elders, that it was impractical because the bandoliers would chafe and rub against the beadwork, causing it to be damaged in a short amount of time.

[BeadMan]

I really have little opinion on modern ribbonwork vests. The overwhelming majority of the ones I see are made WAY too big for the individual and just look funny. But then, maybe I'm the funny one.

In regards to the older vests that Historian described I would like to offer some clarification. These vests always had a strip around the bottom (if they had strips at all) and almost all had 3 up the back, 2 was extremely rare. a good number of pictures I have seen (which is quite a lot) show single or double bandoliers worn over the vest. Two aspects that make the older vests different from the modern ones: The vests are usually fastened in the front not left open and the overall shape is much more square not flared out like modern guys like them.

These vests have been my passion for a few years now.

[Fat Albert]

Beadman makes a subtle point here but it is true from what I have seen as well... the older vests are typically tailored to fit and are not as big as the vests today. Also keep in mind that there are a number of men in old photos that wore vests that had beadwork, mirrors, tack work or shoe buttons and any combination of the above. Also there were just as many who wore plain commercial vests. In the end, it seems to me that the breastplates and bandoliers were worn over the top of a tight fighting, often closed vest. Of course there were many men who did not wear the breastplates or bandoliers when they were wearing shirts and so on. Of course now and days, I think many don't wear the bandoliers and so on since the size and cut of the vest would require it all to be under the vest. As far as bundles go, they are usually attached to the bandoliers. A quick return to Historian's series of tribal historical portraits is well worth your time to see some of the variations.

[BeadMan]

I don't recall ever seeing a breastplate worn with a vest in "old" photos, but I really wasn't looking, I'll have to go back a seewhen I get home. One thing that I sorta wish more guys would do is to put a third strip (beaded or ribbonwork) down the back. Yea I know it gets covered by the otter or hairplates, but I like knowing it's there. No one (to my knowledge) has been able to conclusively explain the reason for these three back strips, but the consistency over time suggests that there was in fact a reason. It might just be the "fashion of the times" to do it that way. When I get my DSL working at the house again I may post a ton of cool old vest pics, I sure got 'em.

[Fat Albert]

Beadman, start with the Osage photos and the Poncas. Particularly Bacon Rind (under) and White Eagle (over). Many are studio portraits so maybe they are artist props (breastplates)? There are other examples. As for having a ton of the cool old vest pics... yes you do!

[ADcRezFamily]

I wear my bandoliers under my vest when dancing.

[BeadMan]

Fat Albert,
Well sure enough I'm looking through all the vest pics and there certainly are quite a few wearing small breastplates with vests. So far only Osages and Poncas that I can see, no Pawnees, Otoes or Kaw, but I have not done a comprehensive look yet, just a quickie. Guess I need to add that characteristic to the list.

When I wear my vest (this older style not a modern ribbonwork vest) I wear 2 bandoliers, they no not match and they are crossed. I wear the vest closed in front and bandoliers and necklaces on the outside.

By the way....ahem....how is your vest coming? Are you only doing the strips or the whole vest?

[CHEROSAGE]

I have several vest that I may wear. One being made of a Pendleton blanket, I like it though a little tooooo snug nowdays. I sometimes wear a breast plate under my vest and often not at all. When I wear my bandolers, I usually wear them over the vest and always under the otter. I wear the bundles on the bandolers only.

[Fat Albert]

Hey Beadman! The vest is moving... just slowly! I decided to do the entire thing so I have the bottom strip started, the other three are done and the appliqué is almost done on one side... time to get started on the other side! When it is all done, I will sew some brass sequins near the strips, get it lined and then do some simple ribbon work to bind it. Ohhh to be done with this project so I can start working on my vest! Haha! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

[Gledanh Zhinga]

I don't have a big photo collection, but I bought a stylized floral beaded vest at a cowboy/Indian sales show in Albuquerque a couple of years ago. It's a little small for me, but it is a nice study piece, beaded front and back. I'm not sure of the tribe. The beads are all "transparent", look to be #11, lots of different colors. The curvilinear outlines are two beads wide, but not white. The single, outside line is "transparent clear" and there is a color inside that. Different colors for that inside row. Then, a contrasting color to fill the floral shape.The bottom of the vest is two-bead edged. The arm holes are two-bead edged in front ,and in the back: two beads - space -two beads - space, etc.

It's on dark blue twill[?] material, probably not a selvage trade material, and it is lined with off-white cotton cloth. There are no lapels or collar. It meets in front in a vertical line a little over a foot long with two places for leather tie strings. It is square cut on the bottom join, no radius.

Someone might have an idea of provenance?

[cakewalk]

i know i'm a huge idiot, and im sure most of you think so, or will think so soon, but i have worn vest for some time now. i dont really know why, i think it makes me look a little bigger,fatter. and i wear it closed in the front no breastplate although i want to. i wear one bandolier over the left shoulder no scarfs,or feather,or love bundle.

and this is where im an idiot, i've always thought about wearing a three piece suit vest style, fully beaded, or out of broadcloth, real snug with three buttons and collar flaps. i've also been trying to make a button up shirt with a band collar, i dont know why....and use M16 or AK47 shells for bandoliers. the other dumb thing, but i have heard of it being done is having a small confederate sword hang off the left side of my belt. confederate coats kick AZZ,i would love to have one just to wear around town or out on a day-to-day basis.

either way thats why i think im an idiot....what do yall think?

[BeadMan]

As long as you wear all of that with a dead coyote stin taped to your head you'll be fine.

Actually does not sound that bad. The sword and coat are a little much for my taste. Do you need to check your blood sugar or something? The vest idea is cool though. The bandoliers I wear with my beaded vest do not have bundles or scarves.