Skinny otter headbands....

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Getting back to the photo, the "Osage Warriors" look dressed to dance. No bells, though. It's probably a result of what the photographer wanted to depict in his studio.

[Redstone]

Well said Angelo. I remember back in the 70's an individual who came up to the Seattle area from Wisconsin, I believe, and he wore the small otter turban and roach. So in reality there may have been others here and there that did so, so it would be hard to pinpoint when it started up, or that it actually never left to begin with. I'm certainly no expert on anything.

I must say, it is so good to see all the keen straight dancers out there these days. For those of you who see alot of them all the time, you're lucky, try living up in the NW where I am at when there are only a few of us straight dancers, and the things we go through just because we are from the south.

Best wishes to all of you for the coming year.

[ern_dawg2003]

Hmmm

[ern_dawg2003]

if you say so, SPINS FINGER AROUND EAR!!!!!

[wa-zha-zhe]

Nah Bo Jangles, it's not jus you Wazhazhe and records all drums. Wahkeen gots a style none of yallz can't touch. Jus because he's got a new RIG, people gotta HATE on him. That's very wrong. WHAT DOES YOUR RIG LOOK LIKE, WHAT TRIBE YOU TRYING TO COPY? SOME MORE OF MY 2 CENTZ!!!!

ern dawg, it's very obvious, that if anyone here, is a hater, it is you.
I see that you are taking a physiological way of hating on Wahkeen, by provoking others to do your dirty work.
Furthermore, you make me wonder what tribe is it that, you, are are trying to copy?

[oklahoma pride]

gah

aww you guys know dayday has been doin alot of things for straight dance. i think he finally placing pretty good. i see his name on a lot of powwow winner lists. sounds like ern dog is hating on angelo so he why he talking about haterz. he's one too.

[Mr Bo Jangles]

Erwin.

Why would I hate one someone I don't know very well?

More directly.


In my own opinion.
...seeing as how I'm already a "hater".


I don't like or think Juaquin has ANY style.

There. I said it. Hate on me, feel free, I encourage you to do so.

I have an opinion and I'm entitled. I don't elect to share it all that often, but, you've been persistent enough that I think I should aire it.

Now. Here's something interesting.



I DO however think YOU, Erndawg....HAVE style.

....something in my opinion, Juaquin lacks.

I see nothing special about how he dances.

But, that's how he chooses to dance, and I respect it, as I do respect him.


You on the other hand stand out, are a damn good dancer.

....YOU.....sir.......have STYLE!


The honest truth.

[bill dance]

OK, I'd asked this ? once before, but the thread got side tracked, and the couple of answers that I got were clearly in reference to the full-size otter turbans instead of the skinny otter bands...

In the picture below, posted by Historian in this thread, You can see the man to the sitting to the right of Bacon Rind (Bill Dance ID'd him as Laban Miles) is wearing a "skinny" otter hat or headband - the fur is about 2 inches wide, not the 4-6 inch "turban" like Bacon Rind wears. These did not have the tail down the back, no flaps on the sides, no medallions.

My question is basically what's up with those? Given that the full-blown otter hats are tied to chiefs or their descendants, or religious leaders, etc (as has been covered in several other threads here), are there similar meanings tied to these skinny otter bands? Or are they less restricted in their use/meanings?

What I have found out about these three men With the Turban and Roach "Head Dress", They are Clan Priests. Their Chests are tatooed if you look at there shoulders. G.W. Parsons the photographer took these pictures around or before 1880.

[denman617]

aho!

[ANGELO]

for the record

wow i didnt think any one remembered me wearin the otter turban and roach. lol. well, as for Juaquin, me and him we talked about a lot of regalia options. first of all Juaquin is one of the coolest dancers out there. when i wore the combo before i got laughed at. people thought i was drunk. my fam from oklahoma told me to never wear it again because its too old. as for what erwin is sayin, why is my background even an issue. lol. i have ties and permission to wear what i do. i even lived in macy, ne and made relations there. the Omaha people shared a lot with me. and i am very thankful for that. but me and Juaquin talked about bringin that back. he asked me to do again and i said no cuz i got laughed at. he is a pawnee and yes he has every right to be who he is. i think his rig is awsome. i can say this, because of his rig straight dance should start goin back in the direction of tribal specific dress. in oklahoma one can either be from that tribe or adopted in that tribe thru familiy. so instead of arguing, follow Juaquin's lead and get interested in your tribe. bring back your old traditions. and dance how u are taught. as for the tribes north of oklahoma, yea u are right they have been wearing that combo for some tyme now. all the traditional dancers wear that. when im up in wisconsin i wear that too. lol. they dont laugh there. lol. oh yeah, the osage do have a lot of old wayz still in knowledge up that way. actually its the osage and otoe people who helped me out with my rig. not to mention the ponca. every one knows that jerod buff did a lot for me as a dancer. so my props as a dancer goes to the ponca, otoe, osage, omaha, kiowa, ho chunk, and pawnee peeps. i am choctaw, caddo, sac&fox. also from the biloxi people. yeah im mixed with black as well, but cant you notice that. as of now i dance for my kids, so whateva u dance for, dance hard. yakokay

[records_all_drumz]

erndawg2003, since you referenced my name I gotta set the record straight my ownself. Re-read my post, I'm not hating on Wahkeen, in fact I said that in my post "not bashin a good fella in Wahkeen". I did not say anything bad about his style of dancing. I made reference to this old style look and dancin a contemporary style kinda contradicts the look.

Like I said if ya gonna look old style then stay within the old style dance.

His rigs are top notch no doubt, his feather work is tough as they come, roach to boot.

Someone mentioned about them old timers would recognize this, maybe a small handful, otherwise I doubt it.

I prefer the roach over a turbin.

Those of you that dance straight keep it up.

[ern_dawg2003]

Setting record straight

why

[Mr Bo Jangles]

Okay I was there when Wahkeen first broke out his New Look, and I have to say HE HAS RIGHTS IN HIS SAUK AND FOX BACKGROUND to wear the Otter and Roach combination. Now Angelos background is a big MYSTERY. I known Angelo for quite some years now and He wears his regalia jus because it's straight dance protocol. I know once before he wore the Otter and Roach combination. now he has the Yellow eagle feathers, the Shoulder feather drops, Bear Claw Neclace, and the Otter Harness. ALL has meanings which i know angelo don't have any ties to. BUT IT'S STRAIGHT DANCE PROTOCOL to him. In Wahkeen's situation don't hate on the BROTHER, cause he's restored a old custom and making it look GOOD!!!!! I got mad props to Wahkeen and his KEEN look. THAT'S MY 2 CENTS!!!!!

You call it "hate".

I call it "Getting the facts straight for posterities sake".

....so, it's not hate.

I'm not talking about rights or priveleges to do or wear things or meaning behind items.

Just stating that Angelo has been wearing one for sometime now. So. It can't be said that Juaquin brought or restored anything.

Even before Angelo though, about 1970 or thereabouts. There's a bunch of Pawnee's who were wearing this combination of roach and otter....so, there, more proof that it was still worn and used.

To apply a term like "restored" then is a moot point...and an inaccuracy at that.


Now I'll shut up.

[uppit]

you bet pt-man, old style all the way!

[ern_dawg2003]

the OTTER AND ROACH LOOK!!!

why