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  • #46
    Black Shawls worn on Straight Dancers

    The older, more traditional style of breechcloth among the Comanche as seen in many old photographs in the 1800s extended to the ankles in front and in back. Frequently these pannels were left plain or decorated with metal fringe or brass sequins.
    In addition, many old photos show Comanche men wearing a dark shawl (called a "peet-squi-nah") wrapped around their waist, over the breechcloth, with the shawl fringe hanging at their knees. These dark shawls, often black in color, can be seen on some Comanche Straight Dancers today. Among the Comanche people, it is simply the way they dressed in good clothes. The dark shawls should not be confused with the Comanche word "Tuwi", meaning "black knife". The "Tuwi" is a separate Comanche Warrior Society which has nothing to do with the Hethuska traditions or the Comanche War Dance Organization. The late Albert Attocknie was one of the last surviving members of the original Comanche Tuwi Society. His son, Joe Attocknie passed the dance and songs of the Tuwi Society to one family. That family still dances the Tuwi with its unique traditions.

    "Be good, be kind, help each other."
    "Respect the ground, respect the drum, respect each other."

    --Abe Conklin, Ponca/Osage (1926-1995)

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    • #47
      black shawl wraps

      If you don't know anything about dress attire of the Kiowas, then leave it alone. I see there's a lot of speculation on this board about the Kiowas. It would be best that you learned as much as you can about your own tribes.

      As far as I'm concerned it is no business to the hobbyists and non-natives of how men in my tribe dress. If you don't know then you just don't know. Leave it alone. If you're trying to copy us then you're wrong and your tribes have their own style of dress, please follow.

      You cannot enter into our societies, unless you're Kiowa. All outsiders have no business trying.

      Comment


      • #48
        Monie:
        I think you may be missing some of the point of this thread. We don't necessarily want to be Kiowas. The greatest thought is the why the Kiowa men wear this black shawl. I for one wouldn't wear it, my people didn't wear it, as far as I know. (I don't know everything).

        I do know that many Tribes/people do adopt things from others that we appreciate and like.

        Please, have more compassion with our readers and friends. We can have many friends across the Tribal borders.
        BOB

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        • #49
          consideration

          They're not considerate of the Kiowa culture by mocking us, so don't tell me to appease a bunch of white people.

          What they're doing is embarrassing and degrading. They even try to have characteristics of our gourd members. So don't tell me they just want to learn, they want to learn things to copy us.

          That is all. You know where I stand so don't try to argue.

          Typical of wannabes to keep argueing.
          I'm not the only one who feels this way, come to Kiowa country and talk to us.

          If you're white then you cannot even "buy" your way in. Those taking money to allow the hobbyists in are wrong.

          Plus, you say you don't know everything then why are you pretending that you do?

          Comment


          • #50
            Monie

            I appreciate your views and defense of Kiowa culture but you as member of this board had to agree to the USAGE POLICY to be able to join the rest of us here. Part of that policy is that you agree not to attach other members. We have no problems with lively debate and often folks do tend to get after each other, however you are attacking nearly every member that comments differently than you want to hear. Enough is enough. You can make your point without assuming things about and/or accusing other members of being this or that just because you do not agree with them. Whether it is true or not it doesn't matter every member of this board is afforded the same protection from attack (i.e., name calling). I doubt you know many if any of the people you are attacking out in the real world and you yourself said in another thread that Words on the Internet mean nothing, unless you back it up . Well, these word will be back up here on this Internet web site. This is a warning to back off and discuss/debate without bashing the other members otherwise your posts will be edited or deleted.
            PB49

            "Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso

            "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift...that is why is it called the Present." Master Oogway - KungFu Panda


            My comments are based on what I have been taught and my experiences over the years I have been around the circle. They should in no way be taken as gospel truths and are merely my opinions or attempts at passing on what I have learned while still learning more.

            Comment


            • #51
              Sorry

              You men are the ones attacking my culture and making it into some kind of game or hobby.

              I'm not attacking anyone, but writing the truth. This is our Kiowa dance no matter how you look at it.

              If you're not Kiowa then don't pretend you are.

              I think you all are just white people anyway.

              If anyone is attacking someone it is you men and if you can't take some criticism then you're truly not Indian enough and I don't see any other Indians getting upset. They know the truth.

              I don't even think you should be debating the Kiowa gourd dance, which is a part of our Kiowa religion.

              You're welcome to our annual event and you can talk to the headsmen. They will tell you the same thing.

              I'm not attacking every member, so that is a lie. You're telling me to BACK OFF is a threat! I stated to back your action up by talking to our headsmen but you twist my words to suit your anger.

              Comment


              • #52
                UH OH

                Comment


                • #53
                  Monie:
                  I for one have a great appreciation for the Kiowas, Comanches, Apaches that I have had the privilage to meet during my numerous tours of duty at Ft. Sill, OK. I don't recall anyone here attacking the Kiowas, Comanches, or anyother Tribe. I do like to learn about other Tribes so not to embarace myself and others. I'm not trying to become anybody else since that would be impossible. I can appreciate others without trying to be them.

                  I don't know everything as anyone else doesn't. I will tell you this is what I have been told, or some other qualifier, when I try to pass some information. I believe I do have a good working knowledge and in some of my Tribals business even more. Anyone trying to say they know everything knows nothing.

                  I must echo PWBs comments about keeping this forum civilized and not to be attacking anyone personnaly. I can understand how you may want to feel protective of your people. Just do this by educating these people wanting to know about something rather than bashing them.
                  BOB

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Cherosage.....you made some good comments. However, I don't recall EVER seeing you sing in Comanche country. Are you a real brother or a Hob?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Teh Hunga:
                      Thank you for your time. I'm a brother not a hob.
                      I'm not much of a singer either. I was just fortunate enough to be allowed to sit on the drum for some dances while I was not able to dance. I got myself hurt my last stationing at Ft. Sill and was unable to dance for a while. I was able to sit though. I danced before and after my injury healed. I haven't been back in that country to dance since 1992. I did return last year for my Blood Uncles passing at Lawton. I now live near KC MO.. My Powwowing is mostly around KC and back to the Quapaw/Miami OK area. I Straight dance when I can get to a dance.
                      BOB

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        SDinAZ

                        Dang ole boy...with this new avatar it looks like your losin weight, but I hate to tell you... you need to trim up those nose hairs...LOL...aaaaye!
                        PB49

                        "Every child is an artist. The problem is how to remain an artist once we grow up." Pablo Picasso

                        "Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift...that is why is it called the Present." Master Oogway - KungFu Panda


                        My comments are based on what I have been taught and my experiences over the years I have been around the circle. They should in no way be taken as gospel truths and are merely my opinions or attempts at passing on what I have learned while still learning more.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          I just don't see the point of covering up that keen ribbon work with a black shawl. But thats just me.
                          Tha-ke'-tha-pi Wa-kon-ta

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            "Basically, I've only seen Kiowas wear them if they were members of TonKonGat - the Black Legs/Leggins Society. This is a highly respected veterans society and their symbols - the waist shawl, Ghoulayee's red cape, the bonnets, the Tipi with Battle Paintings - are guarded and cared for very deeply."

                            TON-KON-GHA. I am a member if the Black Leggins Society and this is part of our tribal dress. Your well informed.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Black shawlz

                              I was also told by Wallace Coffey of the Comanches' that wearing the black shawl you also represent the Lu'mina society. :chief:
                              >>>~~~~*~~~~<<< THUNDERHILL >>>~~~~*~~~~<<<

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by ern_dawg2003
                                I was also told by Wallace Coffey of the Comanches' that wearing the black shawl you also represent the Lu'mina society.
                                Ummm.... would that be a Chevy Lu'mina?

                                gaw... just couldn't resist.... :rofl2:

                                You probably mean "Numunu" (sorry any Comanche folks - I can't figure out how to put the line through the 1st and 2nd U's the way yall write that sound), the Comanche name for themselves.
                                Functionless art is simply tolerated vandalism.

                                Comment

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