Why is it called "Straight" dancing

[WhoMe]

My source tells me that in the warring dayz of the Ponca (when they were still in what is now called Nebraska) they were still fighting the Lakota/Dakota. The Ponca were called,

Wah-NAH-se

meaning - "cutting the throats people." This referred to a common practice back in the day that they were known for.

I'm not sure if this was the present language, their older language or even the one before it....

My source is my grandpa.

We are going to Otoe tonight for some naming ceremonies, dressing ceremonies and just to eat and talk history.

"If my generation doesn't ask questions. It will be gone forever!"

[ladybeadworker]

Originally posted by WhoMe
My source tells me that in the warring dayz of the Ponca (when they were still in what is now called Nebraska) they were still fighting the Lakota/Dakota. The Ponca were called,

Wah-NAH-se

meaning - "cutting the throats people." This referred to a common practice back in the day that they were known for.

I'm not sure if this was the present language, their older language or even the one before it....

My source is my grandpa.

We are going to Otoe tonight for some naming ceremonies, dressing ceremonies and just to eat and talk history.

"If my generation doesn't ask questions. It will be gone forever!"

well my question is why would a tribe refer to themselves in that way? it sounds like something that an outsider of the tribe would say. its like the name Navajo, that was pinned on the Dine tribe.

[WhoMe]

The Dineh' of Alaska, Alberta, Arizona or all the A's above? Apache are Dineh' too!

Another scenerio could be "who's yo' daddy?"

Then how would you answer then???????

You could respond by saying, "I'm one of the cutthroat people . . . and you're next!"

[park]

Now you're just playing Athabaskan word games!

:Naughty

[justcurious]

verry interesting....

Responding to what "Ponca" means, (honored head), (cutting the throats people)? which by the way doesnt have a whole lot to do with "straight" dancing.. but i can see the connection. I heard of "Sacred head" which was to meant to us, Poncas were 'in front of' and 'sacred' meaning religious. hmm and yes I do think that some of the tribes up north did refer to us as (cutting the throats). Only one thing, to my understanding, during these times of war, they didnt just cut the throats, they cut the head clean off. "pa' ma' se' ".. anyway, it has been interesting.

[ladybeadworker]

Originally posted by WhoMe
The Dineh' of Alaska, Alberta, Arizona or all the A's above? Apache are Dineh' too!

Another scenerio could be "who's yo' daddy?"

Then how would you answer then???????

You could respond by saying, "I'm one of the cutthroat people . . . and you're next!"

i would answer by saying you answered your own question.........

if the apaches are known as the apaches.......then why would anybody call them dine? they've already specified by calling themselves apache.......atleast thats what your callin um ....... the tribe once known as navajo now refers to themselves as dine....... and are insulted that the name navajo was pinned on them....... considering it means horse theif and isnt true............besides most of us are coming from matriarchal societies back in that time, so whose yo’ mama? hehehe

lol, but to SOME today I guess it would be who's Yo' dadd’y?
:Chatter :D

[WhoMe]

ladybeadworker:

Thanks for having a sense of humor.

I can see we are getting off the subject. Any comment on why it is called straight dancing?

[Historian]

Straight Dancers and other questions

I have seen a number of questions out of this thread and I will try and answer some of them as best I can.

1. Meaning of the term "Straight" Dancer.
According to what I have learned from my Ponca elders, the term "Straight" was first used to distinguish southern plains Hethuska style man dancers during the 101 Ranch Wild West Shows of the early 1900s (a southern version of Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show). These dancers put on exhibition "war dances" but the promoters did not want them called "War Dancers" for political reasons and because it might "frighten" spectators. Instead, the promoters noticed how the Hethuska dancers appeared to have a linear or straight profile, with the otter dragger being worn instead of bustles. The tern "Straight Dancer" was born and by the 1950s it had become the standard term used in dance competitions throughout Oklahoma.

2. Meaning of "Gentleman's" Dance.
This term has been around since the 1960s (shortly after the Ponca Hethuska revival in 1957). It is in reference to the difference between Straight Dancing movements being more reserved and controlled as comparred to the wild freestyle Fancy Dancing movements becoming so popular at that time. It is also in reference to the notion that many Fancydance outfits were using inexpensive flashy materials in the outfits and Straight Dancers were using the best and most expensive materials available. Lastly, because the movements of a straightdancer are reserved and controlled, and because the outfits were made with expensive materials, the Straightdancing style was mostly attractive to "older" more established men, whereas the Fancydancing style was mostly attractive to younger men and boys.

3. Meaning of the Ponca word: "Wah-NAH-se"
This does not mean "throat cutters". "Wah-NAH-se" is the term used for a position within the Ponca Hethuska known as "Whipman".

4. Meaning of Ponca/Omaha and the separation of the two.
According to "The Omaha Tribe", by Alice C. Fletcher and Francis LaFlesche, 1911, the Omaha and the Ponca were at one time, part of the same tribe and broke away to form seperate tribes.

"A group which kept together until within the last few hundred years seems to have been composed of the five closely cognate tribes now known as the Omaha, Ponca, Osage, Kansa and Quapaw...The five cognate tribes...bear a strong resemblance to one another, not only in language but in tribal organization and religious rites...The descriptive name "Omaha" or "umon hon" means "against the current" or "upstream" had to be fixed on the people prior to 1541. In that year DeSoto's party met the Quapaw tribe, "Quapaw" or "uga xpa" means "with the current" or "downstream"...Both names are said by the tribes to refer to their parting company, the one going up and the other going down the (Mississippi) river....Traditions common to the Omaha, Ponca, Osage, Kansa and Quapaw tribes state that they were once one people...There is a tradition that the Ponca were once a gens (clan) in the Omaha tribe and broke away...and that when they became a tribe the subdivisions of the Ponca gens (clans) became the gentes (clan divisions) of the Ponca tribe...Ponca is an old word, the meaning of which is lost...The Ponca were the last of the cognates to form a tribe by themselves. They were with the Omaha at the peace ceremony with the Arikara and other tribes (approximately 1858), but their departure seems to have taken place not far from that time and on or near the Missouri River."

Some sources have suggested that the origin of Ponca comes from "pa" meaning "head" and "honga" meaning "leader". Therefore Pahonga is is suggested, has evolved to Ponca, but this is only speculation.

5. Meaning of term "PA-ma-se".
From "The Ponca Tribe", by Dr. James H. Howard, 1965, he states, "According to David Littlecook, a southern Ponca, certain southern plains tribes refer to the Ponca as "PA-ma-se", or "head-cutters". Littlecook knew no reason for the use of this term. The anthropologist Alanson Skinner states (Ponca Societies and Dances, 1915) however, 'When an enemy was killed, the Ponca scalped him, then cut off his head and threw it away.'

6. Origin of Hethuska dance.
The Hethuska Society was a functioning men's warrior society when the Omaha and Ponca were one tribe. When the Ponca broke off from the Omaha, it is said they took the Hethuska traditions with them. However, the Omaha retained the Hethuska traditions also and they continued practicing the traditions seperately till they now have slightly different variations on the similar core of traditions.

7. Decline of the use of bustles in the Hethuska Dance Ceremony.
According to Dr. Howard's, "The Ponca Tribe", he states, "As mentioned above, the Hethuska was originally a warrior's dancing society...The characteristic ornaments of the dance were the porqupine and deer-hair roach headdress and the "crow belt" or feather dance bustle. The latter was emblematic of a battlefield and its use was restricted to certain officers of the society who were distinguished warriors....About 1880, with the decline of intertribal warfare, the Hethuska society began to take on a religious flavor. Instead of war speechs and coup countings of the earlier dance there were long prayers for the benefit of the group by designated officials. Gift giving, rather than war honors, was the basis of admission."

During this time, the bustle fell out of use among the southern Ponca. Later, the "Fancydance" style seen on the Oklahoma Pow-Wows can be traced to when the Ponca and other tribes learned the "Omaha Dance" from the Lakota, who still used a bustle when they danced. Ironically, this "Omaha" dance as the Lakota called it, was the "Hethuska" Dance taught to the Lakota by the Omaha, and relearned in an evolved format by the Ponca and seen as a totally different dance.

I know this was long, but I hope it helped clear up some misconceptions.

[Gledanh Zhinga]

Str8Dancer49 is right on.

I've been told that Pahonga is the old name for Ponca, and it is used in at least one Ponca hethushka song.

The sign language for Ponca is to take the index finger, slide it across one's throat, and hold it up vertically. I was told that it indicated an individual cutting off a head.

[Gledanh Zhinga]

I go along with Abe Conklin talking about the early powwow announcer trying to distinguish between the fancy feather outfits and the fabric outfits with less feathers.

Sylvester Warrior showed me the sign in Sign Language for Ponca. It was taking the index finger horizontally across the throat and then holding it vertically beside the head. He said the old Ponca way was to cut off the enemy's head.

A footnote re "Navajo." In Spanish, "navaja" means a knife. It also refers to the steel knife-like spurs which were attached to the legs of fighting cocks. More damage; more blood and guts.

[legalstraight]

Gentlemen's dance

As an add to what historian said about why Straight Dancers or members of the societies tend to be older, more respectable individuals (I ain't never seen a bunch of straight dancers getting chased through a parking lot by angry wives and girlfriends but I have seen it with fancy dancers)
Anyways, besides the cost of the materials that go into an outfit (and propotionately it is cheaper to put an outfit together now than it was 50 years ago, and way more than 100 years ago) if you are going to society dances the costs can add up, and for a young man just starting out on his own or with a young family it is sometimes impossible to do.

[ewoaf]

I always took the meaning of "straight dance" to mean that the dance and the songs were "straight up". No bustles, no fancy, just straight. Of course a kiowa friend of my wife was flipin me grief one day when he asked "how I could call myself a straight dancer, when I danced like this....*made zig zag motion w/ his hands* smart ***...
But more to the point of outfit cost. I am 28 now and have danced since 15 or so, I'm just now being able to put together outfits that I'm comfortable wearing and can say that I'm somewhat proud of...a younger guy in high school I was always finding cheaper ways or cheats. It's only now that I'm on my own and have a decent job that I can afford what I want. yeah...its nice..