Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

"buying or trading for songs"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "buying or trading for songs"

    has anyone ever "bought" or "traded" for a song? I've heard stories from some of my teachers about trading,or buying songs from other singers or groups.I have given away songs,traded for songs(other songs or gifts),and paid for songs. I wanted to know if any other singers else have any stories of songs being "bought", or "traded". I heard back in the day in was an honor to have someone want to have one of your songs. In todays day and age, people just sing whoevers songs,sometimes without permission. I was always taught that once you bring a song out, it belongs to the people,but that its respectful to ask permission from that singer or group to use that song. In some cases,some songs are made for a specific family, or a person who is no longer with us,which is why we ask for permission.I think that all songs have an origin,and as singers it is our responsibility to try and seek out the story of these songs.Anybody with stories to share, or feedback on the subject holla back.
    peace.

  • #2
    There are a couple of CD's that actually state something to simular to :

    "Thanks for buying our cd, these songs are our gift to you, use them how you like"

    that's not a direct quote from any CD, but, just a vague description, maybe your teacher was talking about buying some cd's :)

    Also, ask him/them, whatever.... isn't that why they are there?
    AIM: GlacierESteffan
    Yahoo: low_rdr
    ICQ: 45338941
    MSN: [email protected]

    Comment


    • #3
      I have given a song to a family, and also been approached for permission from other drum groups to sing our songs.
      Around here, with some of the songs being sung that are not necessarily pow wow tunes, I would rather have them learn and sing some of our songs than go on singinging some of these other tunes... so I have given them permission on occasion, I just asked them not to sing our songs when we are around. I have also approached other drums and offered tobacco and asked permission to sing their songs, some have said yes, others no... but it's all good.
      I know there are some songs that singers, nations and families don't want sung outside of their own groups, if I approach them and they say no... it's all good, that's their choice.
      Just my 49 cents worth.

      Paselo
      I became a singer because I love to sing... and to feed my addiction to cough drops!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Steffan Redhawk
        There are a couple of CD's that actually state something to simular to :

        "Thanks for buying our cd, these songs are our gift to you, use them how you like"

        that's not a direct quote from any CD, but, just a vague description, maybe your teacher was talking about buying some cd's :)

        Also, ask him/them, whatever.... isn't that why they are there?
        Actually..............Ive never known my teacher to "learn" a song from a cd,he is an old time singer(regarded as one of the greatest of all time).My teacher has prolly forgotten more songs than most people have ever composed,what i was talking about is the proper protocol that goes along with "receiving" a song,and how it is not used properly.It is a question of how to go about receiving a song,not whether the songs should be used by other people.

        Comment


        • #5
          Greatest of all time?

          I gotta laugh a little at that.. No offense to you, or him (You actually said THEM earlier)

          Sorry he never learned from a CD or tape though, hundreds of drums that he's never even heard of, with thousands of good songs.

          Good luck with your teachings.



          Receiving a song is easy, two steps to it, step a: Listen, step b, give thanks.

          When you say "and how it is not used properly" I can only ASSUME you are talking about the song not being used properly, if I compose a memorial song for a family, and I hear it being sung as an intertribal, I'd be a little upset, but not nearly as upset as the family that could be there.

          So, what would you do in this situation? Its hard to say for the most part.. Fine the drum? Well, it can and has be done, I would say it really depends on the drum, if you have a group of kids, going up and talking to them all as a whole will make a much better impression than asking them for money, for singing your song in the wrong manner.

          I've heard a drum sing a memorial song before, as an intertribal, it's not my song, but I still tell them they should know better, yet they still do it, they don't care.

          They sing the song a little off too, which adds insult to injury.


          Your questions are becoming more and more vague, try to be a little more direct if ithis isn't the topic you were trying to touch on.

          AIM: GlacierESteffan
          Yahoo: low_rdr
          ICQ: 45338941
          MSN: [email protected]

          Comment


          • #6
            The way I see it is if a group makes a c.d with all their songs on it, then those songs are obviously out there for the public to listen and use.

            But, if songs are not on a c.d, and if a drum would like to sing that song (staight or words), they should approach that group and ask the song maker for permission and also what the song is used for before just going ahead and singing it.

            That would be the safest way to go about singing songs that are not your own groups.


            *There are 2 sides to every coin!

            *A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. - Vince Lombardi

            *Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. - Vince Lombardi

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Steffan Redhawk
              Greatest of all time?

              I gotta laugh a little at that.. No offense to you, or him (You actually said THEM earlier)

              Sorry he never learned from a CD or tape though, hundreds of drums that he's never even heard of, with thousands of good songs.

              Good luck with your teachings.



              Receiving a song is easy, two steps to it, step a: Listen, step b, give thanks.

              When you say "and how it is not used properly" I can only ASSUME you are talking about the song not being used properly, if I compose a memorial song for a family, and I hear it being sung as an intertribal, I'd be a little upset, but not nearly as upset as the family that could be there.

              So, what would you do in this situation? Its hard to say for the most part.. Fine the drum? Well, it can and has be done, I would say it really depends on the drum, if you have a group of kids, going up and talking to them all as a whole will make a much better impression than asking them for money, for singing your song in the wrong manner.

              I've heard a drum sing a memorial song before, as an intertribal, it's not my song, but I still tell them they should know better, yet they still do it, they don't care.

              They sing the song a little off too, which adds insult to injury.


              Your questions are becoming more and more vague, try to be a little more direct if ithis isn't the topic you were trying to touch on.


              LOL.........thank you for correcting me Redhawk.........I've been taught by many good singers,Gary Holybull,Jim Clairmont,Jerry Dearly,Larry Cozad,ect...............but the ONE i was talking about was Johnny Smith(if you ain't heard of him......),and in Johnny's day and age there were no cd's.


              As for my "vague questions"...........the only questions I asked was if anybody had any stories pertaining the trading or buying of songs.


              Some stories I've heard about people "receiving" songs have included trading horses,trading feathers,even giving away automobiles.Those were the kind of stories I was looking for.I didn't realize that stuff sounded so "easy".

              Comment


              • #8
                songs

                I too have had the privledge of spending time with Johnnie Smith, and he is definitely one of the all time greatest singers, composers, and teachers of all time. Its funny how these Ohio "indians" know everything about our ways and doings, or at least act like they do.
                One thing I learned from Johnnie is he would tell us they would trade songs with the Bill Baker family of New Town quite often, Johnnie and Leroy would share jingle songs, both straight and squaw dance, and the Bakers would share grass and war dance songs. There is still a really good relationship between old man Johnny and the Baker family. Lots of good tunes passed back and forth.
                Johnnie is definitely one to tell stories and he's the type that when he's talking, you really want to pay attention, because there is so much knowledge and wisdom in his words. A man as old as Johnny, still singing songs that you've never heard before, always cracking out a fresh tune, endless, endless songbook. I tried to suggest a song once, and he said we already sang that one, you gotta learn them all before we sing that one again.
                Just thought I'd share a little about the man. As for trading/buying songs, it is different from what I seen from tribe to tribe. Modern powow way is alot different than traditional Lakota/Dakota way. I know of old timers who could use the same song but change the wording or names in the song to fit the occasion. That was pretty common practice around here. I have heard stories about giving away of songs, veterans songs, family memorial songs etc. giving to other veteran's familys and such. I also heard of a guy from Rocky Boy who sells powwow songs to some of our more known singers. Just a little powwow gossip for you to chew on.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I also heard of people trading things like were mentioned.

                  I also think that now-a-days things are changing and people are not respecting the value of songs as much as years past.


                  *There are 2 sides to every coin!

                  *A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. - Vince Lombardi

                  *Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. - Vince Lombardi

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The_HULK
                    I also heard of people trading things like were mentioned.

                    I also think that now-a-days things are changing and people are not respecting the value of songs as much as years past.
                    I agree. And I feel that its because back in the day composers of songs were honored and not nearly as numerous as today. Now-a-days you have guys putting out vocable songs that are nothing more than re-mixed, re-put together songs of old...they "compose" those songs just for CDs or contest season.

                    I much prefer the old traditional word songs.

                    I've had the pleasure of seeing songs given away and paid for (usually nice gifts too). Not sure where the future of songs and song ownership is going, but one cannot argue that its changing and guys like myself, The HULK, WhoMe, and others don't seem to fit into that new scene...
                    I think everyone on this rez is addicted to Harry Potter...lol...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I didn't realize what some people have done for a song. I know of a few memorial songs that were given, and as thanks, vehicles, money, birds, given in exchange... Not purchased though.

                      tatonkahorse:

                      I know a few gentlemen like that... The same type that feel that usin the same flagsong twice ina weekend is too much :) I <3 those guys... Me, I can't begin to tell you how many songs I know, but I'm one of those guys that can't remember the lead to save my life... always been that way...

                      I've got mad respect to those men that know 5 billion songs and can give you the lead to any one of them in a heartbeat :D

                      To the ohio statement.... wth? Okay, theres a few drums in ohio that are worse than a joke, it's almost like a nightmare... There are alo a few people that know what they're doin, like, ionno, 7, lol... :)

                      Knock on Rhode Island.
                      AIM: GlacierESteffan
                      Yahoo: low_rdr
                      ICQ: 45338941
                      MSN: [email protected]

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        songs

                        Originally posted by tatonkahorse
                        I too have had the privledge of spending time with Johnnie Smith, and he is definitely one of the all time greatest singers, composers, and teachers of all time. Its funny how these Ohio "indians" know everything about our ways and doings, or at least act like they do.
                        One thing I learned from Johnnie is he would tell us they would trade songs with the Bill Baker family of New Town quite often, Johnnie and Leroy would share jingle songs, both straight and squaw dance, and the Bakers would share grass and war dance songs. There is still a really good relationship between old man Johnny and the Baker family. Lots of good tunes passed back and forth.
                        Johnnie is definitely one to tell stories and he's the type that when he's talking, you really want to pay attention, because there is so much knowledge and wisdom in his words. A man as old as Johnny, still singing songs that you've never heard before, always cracking out a fresh tune, endless, endless songbook. I tried to suggest a song once, and he said we already sang that one, you gotta learn them all before we sing that one again.
                        Just thought I'd share a little about the man. As for trading/buying songs, it is different from what I seen from tribe to tribe. Modern powow way is alot different than traditional Lakota/Dakota way. I know of old timers who could use the same song but change the wording or names in the song to fit the occasion. That was pretty common practice around here. I have heard stories about giving away of songs, veterans songs, family memorial songs etc. giving to other veteran's familys and such. I also heard of a guy from Rocky Boy who sells powwow songs to some of our more known singers. Just a little powwow gossip for you to chew on.

                        A-HO!! Thank you for the good words about a man(mr. minnesota) that has been an inspiration to quite a few native american youth in the midwest area. He does have a lot of great stories about singers,songs, past and present.And his songbook is endless...............that's what this thread IS really about.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Buying &amp; Trading?!

                          My thoughts are,...in todays pow-wow world, it seems alot of the younger singers that sing,or try to sing certain songs,you know they're not singing anything that is original of their own,by that I mean,they've learned the songs from CD's and they probably didn't approach the singers who create the songs and even offer them anything to use or sing them. I've heard of a desperate guy who sold some songs so he could get his next A&D fix,...but the guy who bought them already knew the songs anyway,so he just felt sorry for the guy and gave him some money for the songs recorded on a cassette tape. Even people who record at pow-wows,sometimes don't even offer the singers anything.like some $$$ or tobacco for the awesome songs they put out there. Then they turn around and bootleg the recordings!!! It's all messed up!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Pushtay Hill
                            Even people who record at pow-wows..... Then they turn around and bootleg the recordings!!! It's all messed up!!!
                            That's what I do not like. That is just like stealing in my books. Singers travel a long ways to a pow-wow just to have their music recorded and distributed without their permission, that's just wrong.

                            Sounds like a new thread to me.


                            *There are 2 sides to every coin!

                            *A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done. - Vince Lombardi

                            *Individual commitment to a group effort - that is what makes a team work, a company work, a society work, a civilization work. - Vince Lombardi

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think with the introduction of selling tapes an Cd's it has made this "trading" all a bit more complicated than it used to be. It seems as tho people make a disconnect between money and trading when really - Money IS our modern day trading tool.
                              I havnt given the topic too much thought (CD Music) but I've heard other peoples comments on the matter - one older guy's perception was that a group is selling their songs/music and the right to sing it when they sell their cd/tape. in a sense, thats a form of modern day trading, those of us with recordings are trading our songs for money.
                              as for stories, there have been times at powwows when guys have juss come up and asked for my recorder, they then put a song or a coupla songs on there an thats about it, sometimes without even sayin too much. other times i know singers will still trade song for song often or just buy a coupla good ones that havnt been popularized yet.
                              True to my word.

                              Comment

                              Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

                              Related Topics

                              Collapse

                              • DCP
                                Composing Songs
                                by DCP
                                I have been told by some that one has to earn the right to compose songs. I have been told by others that if a song "comes to you" it ought to be used. I would enjoy hearing some feedback on this.
                                06-27-2000, 12:03 AM
                              • HeyDad!!
                                Dance Progression
                                by HeyDad!!
                                I know that like other songs there are slow medium and fast songs. When singing these songs how should one proceed? For example say your singing 7 or 8 sets, should the first and second be slow, the 3rd slow - medium, 4-6 medium, and 7 and 8 fast?

                                Thanks....
                                06-26-2000, 03:09 PM
                              • Fat Albert
                                Trot Dance
                                by Fat Albert
                                Here is a question for anyone who wants to chew on it... How does a person correctly dance the trot songs? Why are these songs done the way they are? Are there tribal differences? Have a good one and enjoy the holidays!
                                12-22-2003, 04:23 PM
                              • Fat Albert
                                Trot Dance Songs
                                by Fat Albert
                                Here is a question for anyone who wants to chew on it... How does a person correctly dance the trot songs? Why are these songs done the way they are? Are there tribal differences? Have a good one and enjoy the holidays!
                                12-22-2003, 04:23 PM
                              • stud of the stable
                                straight singing becoming the rage?
                                by stud of the stable
                                Black Lodge and Black Stone broke new ground, and influenced today's popular contemporary sound (I know, Rod Hunter & Red Nation way back did too). I seem to notice more of today's groups swaying their attention to please an older demographic,and sing more conservatively as oppossed to the Indian...
                                11-10-2000, 06:07 PM

                              Trending

                              Collapse

                              There are no results that meet this criteria.

                              Sidebar Ad

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X