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  • intertribal acquisition

    A friend was telling me a Cree woman travelled to the Southwest recently and heard a Cree song from her area. The Cree words had been taken out and replaced by one of the Southwest languages.

    Hmmm?

    So if a person records a song or buys a CD, is this now their song to do with what they want? Does public domain apply when songs are sung at powwows or other public Native events?

    Intertribal exchange has always taken place. In the past, rights and ownership were heavily paid for.

    Unfortunately, we aren't living in the past. For the price of a tape or CD, you have instant music.

    What's your take?
    Last edited by WhoMe; 05-15-2008, 01:07 PM.
    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

  • #2
    Wow, I think it's like stealing. I hope they had permission to do that.
    Bead All You Can Bead

    Comment


    • #3
      Several different directions.....

      I'd say initially if someone "remixed" a song it would be appropriate to "touch base" with the group or people it originated with. I've heard several remixes over the years and i'm sure i'll here more. Nothing wrong with emulation but you should follow some type of protocol, thats just respect. Some Singers don't mind and some will have one of these for you .....
      "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

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      • #4
        I ran into quite a few of these down here.....some do ask permission but personnally, where's the creativity in that???...I could not take pride in remixing someone elses work.....even if I never heard a song before and a tune is presented to me, only to find out another person (group) already has one similiar, I drop it and move on.....which is why for me, I don't sing word songs...for one, it's not my language and you never know who's watching...another, I take pride in some of the songs that were presented to me by the spirits.....anyway.........just ramblin on....Coyot in the House is A'has'teen!!!!.......
        sigpic

        ...And shephards we shall be. For thee my lord, for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand. That our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee. And teeming with souls shall it ever be. E Nomini Patri, E Fili, E Spiritu Sancti.

        Comment


        • #5
          Interesting topic... a good friend of mine were talking at a powwow once. He heard a song that he recognized, and proceeded to sing the original. He explained that we no longer go on raids to other encampments, so now we steal songs!!

          I agree though... some protocol would be nice, question is how do you enforce said protocol.
          I'm innocent I tell ya!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Chief!

            Originally posted by 50cal View Post
            I ran into quite a few of these down here.....some do ask permission but personnally, where's the creativity in that???...I could not take pride in remixing someone elses work.....even if I never heard a song before and a tune is presented to me, only to find out another person (group) already has one similiar, I drop it and move on.....which is why for me, I don't sing word songs...for one, it's not my language and you never know who's watching...another, I take pride in some of the songs that were presented to me by the spirits.....anyway.........just ramblin on....Coyot in the House is A'has'teen!!!!.......
            .........
            "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

            Comment


            • #7
              LOL!!!...smartguy.............
              sigpic

              ...And shephards we shall be. For thee my lord, for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand. That our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee. And teeming with souls shall it ever be. E Nomini Patri, E Fili, E Spiritu Sancti.

              Comment


              • #8
                This actually happened to one of my "Family" at a pow wow. He has a family drum and wrote several songs. They were recorded onto a CD. Another drum bought that CD and has been around at pow wow's singing them. One day both drums were at the same pow wow and my Relative proceeded to sing his song and a woman came up to him and said "Oh that's so and so's song, that belongs to them, they sing it all the time." My relative said "Like H*** it is", then the person talking to him said "But I like the way that you sing it much better."

                The problem with "Stealing" someone else's song is that most of the time the one "Stealing" it doesn't get the words or the beat right and it doesn't sound good at all. Just my opinion here.

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                • #9
                  So back to the first post.....did they change the words or just translate the song into their own language?
                  There are 2 types of people in the world...
                  Really stupid people who think they are smart
                  and
                  Really smart people who think they are smart.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by billyjoejimbob View Post
                    So back to the first post.....did they change the words or just translate the song into their own language?

                    bjjb,

                    I don't know. According to my friend, the Cree woman only recognized the song, not the language.
                    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      maybe it was the same song and they didn't know the words properly???....and that's why she didn't recognize it.....LOL!!!.......I wouldn't be surprised............
                      sigpic

                      ...And shephards we shall be. For thee my lord, for thee. Power hath descended forth from thy hand. That our feet may swiftly carry out thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to thee. And teeming with souls shall it ever be. E Nomini Patri, E Fili, E Spiritu Sancti.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I've herad a few straight songs....

                        That sound purty close.....A tweak here and there and hence "the Remix". Looking at it from a different perspective i've heard songs with words that sound pretty similar. both intertribal and within the same Tribe.....The Old Man said it best...."songs are on loan to us...."
                        "She also has a very soft skin. The only trouble with snake women is they copulate with horses, which makes them strange to me. She say's she doesn't. That's why I call her "Doesn't Like Horses". But, of course, she's lying."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think it all depends on how you look at it. The way I see it at first is "Stealing". But the more I think about it, I see all types of different aspects of the situation coming to light. I wonder if the Cree lady spoke to the lead singer of the group in regards to the origin of the song and how his group came upon the song. Could have been a situation where the lead singer may have spoken to the person that "received" the song, and was told that it was ok to switch the language up(as long as the translation was kept the same) so's that the folks down in that area could understand the "meaning" of the song. Could have been that who ever was singing the song, could have received the song from another group that got it from another group, that got it from another group, etc, and so on, and no one took the time to say "By the way, this song has been switched up". I mean, there's all kinds of factors that can play into a situation like this. The thing is, do we jump to conclusions right off the bat, or do we say to ourselves, "This is worth the time and effort to get an honest answer". But that's just me!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by John Wesley View Post
                            I think it all depends on how you look at it. The way I see it at first is "Stealing". But the more I think about it, I see all types of different aspects of the situation coming to light. I wonder if the Cree lady spoke to the lead singer of the group in regards to the origin of the song and how his group came upon the song. Could have been a situation where the lead singer may have spoken to the person that "received" the song, and was told that it was ok to switch the language up(as long as the translation was kept the same) so's that the folks down in that area could understand the "meaning" of the song. Could have been that who ever was singing the song, could have received the song from another group that got it from another group, that got it from another group, etc, and so on, and no one took the time to say "By the way, this song has been switched up". I mean, there's all kinds of factors that can play into a situation like this. The thing is, do we jump to conclusions right off the bat, or do we say to ourselves, "This is worth the time and effort to get an honest answer". But that's just me!

                            John,

                            Good point.

                            How does a drum singing a remix, let everyone know they have permission to change a song?

                            How is this relayed to the community members and relatives of where the song originated?
                            Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              how would a group let people know ... they have "permission" to sing it and change it?

                              and besides ... maybe the group never thought ... hey there might be someone here from the area they got it from and recognize it. alot of cree songs do have alot of the same words .... "hey come and dance ... you look beautiful dancing" ... a variation of these words in most of the songs (dancing, come here and beautiful).

                              things that make you go ... hmmmmm
                              Watch your broken dreams...
                              Dance in and out of the beams of a neon moon

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