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  • badmaninc
    replied
    I have talked with numerous singers from different places over the years who have told me that we don't actually own the songs, we simply carry them and share them. Only selfish people want to keep the songs for themselves. Where I come from one of the teachings is the songs own us and we need to share them in a good way. Some believe these songs were given to them to help others feel better and help some prary. So it depends on your point of view and how the teachings were given.

    Leave a comment:


  • Coyot_In_The_House
    replied
    When you sing a song in public....

    Now matter how many times you say it belongs to you and your family and so on....It basically belongs to the people....The Community at large....If it was not your intent to share it, well sing it in the shower at home.....Yes people should respect the song and most do....From time to time some will go off in other directions, so how can you handle or address that? I've met several singers over the years who were quite pleased when "Their" music was shared or admired and used in a good way.....I've also met some singers who make their way up to the speaker stand and start off with......"MY RELATIVES........." Well you know your in for a long one when they kick it off like that.....

    Leave a comment:


  • 50cal
    replied
    Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
    ndn,


    Now your getting warmer to the REAL reason for this thread!
    that navajos are some uncreative natives????????

    Leave a comment:


  • ndnsooner
    replied
    Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
    ndn,


    Now your getting warmer to the REAL reason for this thread!
    I was pretty caught off guard by this and still not sure what to think. Maybe there was an explanation on the CD cover. Maybe who ever made the CD was given perimission from the likes of McClellan's, Barkers, Butlers or Harris's.

    Leave a comment:


  • WhoMe
    replied
    Originally posted by ndnsooner View Post
    I was listening to a buddy's peyote cd and the songs sounded familiar, when it would get to the word part it threw me. Then I figured that they were all Sac N Fox songs, with all the words replaced with Navajo words.


    ndn,


    Now your getting warmer to the REAL reason for this thread!

    Leave a comment:


  • ndnsooner
    replied
    Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
    A friend was telling me a Cree woman travelled to the Southwest recently and heard a Cree song from her area. The Cree words had been taken out and replaced by one of the Southwest languages.

    Hmmm?

    So if a person records a song or buys a CD, is this now their song to do with what they want? Does public domain apply when songs are sung at powwows or other public Native events?

    Intertribal exchange has always taken place. In the past, rights and ownership were heavily paid for.

    Unfortunately, we aren't living in the past. For the price of a tape or CD, you have instant music.

    What's your take?
    I was listening to a buddy's peyote cd and the songs sounded familiar, when it would get to the word part it threw me. Then I figured that they were all Sac N Fox songs, with all the words replaced with Navajo words.

    Leave a comment:


  • upriver_tla
    replied
    There is one song that I know alot of groups sing, now is it stealing if practically 'everyone', alot of groups already know the song? But then again if everyone else already knows the song youre just trying to get to the same level as everyone else. But the original group sings the song to the way it was originally sung. This Group was called High Rock of Cross Lake, these singers went apart and to their seperate ways. The ssong they sang was derrived from a gospel song called In The Sweet Bye And Bye, it is often sung as a Memorial-Honor song. They sung the chorus of the song in Cree and the lead is different from the straight version. The straight version to this song is sung all around Powwow country.

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wesley
    replied
    Originally posted by WhoMe View Post
    John,

    Good point.

    How does a drum singing a remix, let everyone know they have permission to change a song?

    How is this relayed to the community members and relatives of where the song originated?
    You know what? I could only answer these two questions based on how I would handle it for myself, not anyone else. Some folks may agree, some may not, but my uncles(KTN Society) have shown me many things, and with what they have shown me, these are the best answers I can come up with...

    A drum singing a "remix" could take the time to announce over the microphone via the MC or someone appointed by the group singing the song(which is usually the lead singer), and inform the people in attendance as to the history of the song and the steps that were taken to "modify" the song. To let everyone know that what was done has been done with the best of intentions in mind and that the steps that were taken were the best steps that could have been taken at the time of the modification of the "song" being sung. And also, that this "remix" has been done with the approval/permission of the appropriate individual(s), before the song is sung/delivered.

    A drum could relay their "right" to alter or "change" a song up to the community members and relatives of where the song originated via the individual(s) that actually gave the "approval/permission", being that "those" certain people would more than likely be returning to/residing in that community before the singing group would.

    Now, another way to do this would be for the group that is to sing the initial tune of the "remix", to be at a pow wow within the community from which the song originated, and to announce it then and there, on the P.A. outloud and in the open with everyone present that needs to be, so that there is no room for misconceptions.

    Also, one extra step that can be taken, is to get as much history on the song as possible, and the full name and contact information such as phone numbers, or cell numbers of the individual(s) that have given "approval/permission" so that if any "challenges" come up, you will be able to cover yourselves...but then again, if everything is done on the up and up, and people feel or sense that what has been done has been done with the best of intentions, there usually won't be any issues...but that's just me.

    Leave a comment:


  • chazziff
    replied
    how would a group let people know ... they have "permission" to sing it and change it?

    and besides ... maybe the group never thought ... hey there might be someone here from the area they got it from and recognize it. alot of cree songs do have alot of the same words .... "hey come and dance ... you look beautiful dancing" ... a variation of these words in most of the songs (dancing, come here and beautiful).

    things that make you go ... hmmmmm

    Leave a comment:


  • WhoMe
    replied
    Originally posted by John Wesley View Post
    I think it all depends on how you look at it. The way I see it at first is "Stealing". But the more I think about it, I see all types of different aspects of the situation coming to light. I wonder if the Cree lady spoke to the lead singer of the group in regards to the origin of the song and how his group came upon the song. Could have been a situation where the lead singer may have spoken to the person that "received" the song, and was told that it was ok to switch the language up(as long as the translation was kept the same) so's that the folks down in that area could understand the "meaning" of the song. Could have been that who ever was singing the song, could have received the song from another group that got it from another group, that got it from another group, etc, and so on, and no one took the time to say "By the way, this song has been switched up". I mean, there's all kinds of factors that can play into a situation like this. The thing is, do we jump to conclusions right off the bat, or do we say to ourselves, "This is worth the time and effort to get an honest answer". But that's just me!

    John,

    Good point.

    How does a drum singing a remix, let everyone know they have permission to change a song?

    How is this relayed to the community members and relatives of where the song originated?

    Leave a comment:


  • John Wesley
    replied
    I think it all depends on how you look at it. The way I see it at first is "Stealing". But the more I think about it, I see all types of different aspects of the situation coming to light. I wonder if the Cree lady spoke to the lead singer of the group in regards to the origin of the song and how his group came upon the song. Could have been a situation where the lead singer may have spoken to the person that "received" the song, and was told that it was ok to switch the language up(as long as the translation was kept the same) so's that the folks down in that area could understand the "meaning" of the song. Could have been that who ever was singing the song, could have received the song from another group that got it from another group, that got it from another group, etc, and so on, and no one took the time to say "By the way, this song has been switched up". I mean, there's all kinds of factors that can play into a situation like this. The thing is, do we jump to conclusions right off the bat, or do we say to ourselves, "This is worth the time and effort to get an honest answer". But that's just me!

    Leave a comment:


  • Coyot_In_The_House
    replied
    I've herad a few straight songs....

    That sound purty close.....A tweak here and there and hence "the Remix". Looking at it from a different perspective i've heard songs with words that sound pretty similar. both intertribal and within the same Tribe.....The Old Man said it best...."songs are on loan to us...."

    Leave a comment:


  • 50cal
    replied
    maybe it was the same song and they didn't know the words properly???....and that's why she didn't recognize it.....LOL!!!.......I wouldn't be surprised............

    Leave a comment:


  • WhoMe
    replied
    Originally posted by billyjoejimbob View Post
    So back to the first post.....did they change the words or just translate the song into their own language?

    bjjb,

    I don't know. According to my friend, the Cree woman only recognized the song, not the language.

    Leave a comment:


  • billyjoejimbob
    replied
    So back to the first post.....did they change the words or just translate the song into their own language?

    Leave a comment:

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