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Harsh? Fair? or Easy? How's it judged?

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  • Harsh? Fair? or Easy? How's it judged?

    I was in a singing contest this past weekend and realized that people vary with respect to how they penalize groups with subtle and obvious mistakes.

    For example, if a singer out of 7 fumbled on one word in a verse... I know some judges who would automatically knock them down to a 6 out of 10 and then others would score it as a 9 out of 10.
    Or, how about if you had someone that was a tad trigger happy and jump/stutters in on the response...I know some who would cut the group down to a 5 while others may only see fit for an 8 out 10.

    How much of this do you know happens and how much of it rest within the name of the group (i.e. Yellowhammer, Southern Thunder)?
    To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

    When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

    Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

  • #2
    Originally posted by LSS View Post
    I was in a singing contest this past weekend and realized that people vary with respect to how they penalize groups with subtle and obvious mistakes...
    Let me preface, immediately, by saying that I am NOT a singer. (I've sat at a drum, three times in my life.) That said, I am a former jazz musician, play a variety of instruments and have perfect relative pitch.

    So, where am I going with this?

    Every drum "screws up," every song, at least to a degree.

    Tempos change, they're atonal, words slur and honor beats, and such, change position. (Why do you think so many groups sing only their own songs for competition? Only they know how it's supposed to be, if they ever bothered to nail it down.)

    The best metaphor I can come up with is to give two 1940's Big Bands the same chart of Satin Doll, to the note, and they sound completely different in character: and nobody is "wrong."

    It all distills to what is preferred by the listener.

    Comment


    • #3
      Win it, place in it, or get a goose egg in it! Just know you did your best and go on to the next powwow....

      It happens to the most notable Drum Groups from here too! Don't sweat it....

      Comment


      • #4
        I was talking with one of the guys from our drum today about this thread and the biggest of the notion that I was intended to get at (although I'm sure no one wants to address/admit this happens or they do it...) was how a young drum group can sing a song pretty well and not get scored very high. On the other hand, a seasoned drum can sing a song pretty well too and they'll get scored higher.

        Some of the things in question now is the complexity of the song. Does it affect how you or others score?
        To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

        When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

        Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

        Comment


        • #5
          If you messup a song a little, but sang it good (strong, making it sound reaaal good, and puttin that feeling in it) you'll still score high. Not as high as other drums that don't mess up and are just as good singers (between similar quality drums the one who sang with no mistakes would place higher)... yes that means if a drum who sings decent with no mistakes will not place above drum that sings real good and had a lil mishap (regardless of your "name", though usually good singers are the ones who make a name for theirselves).

          If you sang it with no mistakes but your singing sounds dry or all "cookie cutter" and you don't move me you're not going to score as high. There are drums that are in complete unison with there beat and singing and if you scored it the way it says on your tabulation sheet they would get perfect scores. This doesnt mean they can "sing" though. It's all about how you move people with your singing.

          The complexity of the song don't mean spit. Whether it's a simple repeater or tricky as hell, either its a good song that can move people or its bland and has no feeling to it. The drum is there to move the people not to pat theirselves on the back thinking they are good singers because the song is "complex".

          While in contests "who you know" and name recognition is always a factor, but being a "seasoned" or "young" drum... you gotta make the people feel your singing.
          ScarryWolf

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by BigChef View Post
            If you messup a song a little, but sang it good (strong, making it sound reaaal good, and puttin that feeling in it) you'll still score high. Not as high as other drums that don't mess up and are just as good singers (between similar quality drums the one who sang with no mistakes would place higher)... yes that means if a drum who sings decent with no mistakes will not place above drum that sings real good and had a lil mishap (regardless of your "name", though usually good singers are the ones who make a name for theirselves).

            If you sang it with no mistakes but your singing sounds dry or all "cookie cutter" and you don't move me you're not going to score as high. There are drums that are in complete unison with there beat and singing and if you scored it the way it says on your tabulation sheet they would get perfect scores. This doesnt mean they can "sing" though. It's all about how you move people with your singing.

            The complexity of the song don't mean spit. Whether it's a simple repeater or tricky as hell, either its a good song that can move people or its bland and has no feeling to it. The drum is there to move the people not to pat theirselves on the back thinking they are good singers because the song is "complex".

            While in contests "who you know" and name recognition is always a factor, but being a "seasoned" or "young" drum... you gotta make the people feel your singing.
            Thanks Chief! You hit "that" nail pretty square on! Unfortunately, you and I both know that just as there are you and I, there are other butt-wholes (ahemmm...I mean ideas/opinions on how to judge) that are out there!
            To get a true picture of your purpose in life, you only get the whole picture when you listen with your mind, your ears and your heart. This way The Creator has a direct connection with you and only you...no outside interference.

            When you follow the will of IT that created you, understanding that your purpose is not for you...but for IT and all that IT has created, there can be no wrong except failure to be obedient. Only then do we jeopardize the gifts we are given.

            Its not the final destination that defines us, rather the journey taken!

            Comment


            • #7
              Well like I said, if your there just for competition singing then "may the force be with you!?'....then sing like its your last song of the season, every song. So what if the judges or your worst enemy is judging you or someone who just came off the street and "boom" instant singer who instintaneously has the knowledge of how all songs are to be rendered. We get alot of those around herrr!????....If you moved the dancers, spectators, mc, head judge, drum judges, lady singers, tinytots, powwow committee, and mother nature by your singing then you accomplished your mission.

              Thats better than winning, placing, or getting the good ole' goose egg....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Host-Drum View Post
                ...If you moved the dancers, spectators, mc, head judge, drum judges, lady singers, tinytots, powwow committee, and mother nature by your singing then you accomplished your mission.

                Thats better than winning, placing, or getting the good ole' goose egg....
                I love this last statement Host!!! I generally sit in the cheap seats, and normally the dances around here are such that we're sitting in the sidelines, so I don't often get to catch a glance at the dancers. So when we're competing or when I felt we sang a really good song, I'm always asking our head singer, "So how did the dancers react? Did they dance hard?" To me that's what it's all about! I hate to see dancers just walking around when we're singin. That tells me we're not connecting for some reason and that can be disappointing, especially if it seems to us that we're singing good.
                "It doesn't really matter, they don't know any better anyway."

                Comment


                • #9
                  LSS,

                  What a timely question.

                  I havent' sung with my normal drum in 2 years. The lead singer played the CD with all their new songs twice for me on the way to the powwow.

                  The second day of drum competition, we sang one of the new songs from their new CD for our contest song. I jump started the second wrong.....

                  ...that was a $2000 mistake and it was my fault.

                  I know if I didn't make that mistake, we might have placed higher. I felt, and still feel really bad.



                  LSS. I hope this answers your question.
                  Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by hobbs49 View Post
                    I love this last statement Host!!! I generally sit in the cheap seats, and normally the dances around here are such that we're sitting in the sidelines, so I don't often get to catch a glance at the dancers. So when we're competing or when I felt we sang a really good song, I'm always asking our head singer, "So how did the dancers react? Did they dance hard?" To me that's what it's all about! I hate to see dancers just walking around when we're singin. That tells me we're not connecting for some reason and that can be disappointing, especially if it seems to us that we're singing good.

                    You have got ask yourselves, when you go to the drum are you really there to make that almighty dollar, which by the way, doesn't make you a better singer/drummer or whatever you call yourselves. I know in competition singing/drumming it does make you nervous to make that $10k, $5k, or $500 dollar mistake. Again, are you solely there for that? Or be satisfied by knowing you sung your heart, lungs and vocals out by singing your best? Even though you got judged low due to jacking up the song tempo, lead, second, off-beat or just lip syncing! weee!.... Every singer has done this at least more than they can count and it hangs on them when the next time singing competition rolls around.....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      We haven't always had singing contests.

                      Just some food for thought. Sylvester Warrior, a traditional man, helped to organize the Ponca hethuska in the late 1950's. Sylvester passed away in 1973 and a few years prior to his passing, a guy told him about a powwow singing contest. Sylvester gave him an incredulous look, and said, "There's no such thing as a singing contest!"

                      I'm not saying this to poo poo singing contests. I'm simply giving you a traditional man's first reaction to hearing about them.

                      Comment

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