rigged powwows

[Kiwehnzii]

,..i was just wondering what people thought about it because most "white, mainstream" competitions are open ballot..you know exactly who a judge picked and what score was given.....

Most white mainstream people don't know each other like we do in the powwow world.

You and I can't see who each other is, but........ you know both my wife and I. We don't cross paths much, but on occasion, we are at the same powwows. My wife talks to you more than me, but if I didn't score you on the ballot, I wouldn't want you to see it.

That's why we can't hold cards up and announce the scores like the olympics.

[Bandit]

For starters, if my traveling pals don't put me on a ballot, they be walking home. Hoping that I judge their category the following powwow. Nah, I don't play that game. I judge solely on timing, outfit and effort.

[Coyot_In_The_House]

As The Tipi Turns....

No matter what everyone will never be satisfied....You see it all the time, someone has a gripe over a contest or some 'outcome".

As for all the money and traditions don't mix folks.....How do you pay your bills.....?

[Kiwehnzii]

That's right Coyote.

Woggs wasn't griping, just making conversation.

[flicker_fan2005]

Judging a friend in competition

This had happened to me in the past. A head judge had asked me to judge. One particular dancer was a friend of the head judge and a friend of mine.
After two songs this dancer would of been on my ballot, the powwow called for a third song, and this particular dancer struggled with the song. I could not put him down. I had to put down what I would call a enemy to me, over a really good friend.
When I handed my closed ballet to the head judge, the head judge opened it and read who I picked.
To this day i know this friend is wondering if i am a friend, and i know that the head judge told this dancer he was not picked by me.
This head judge, I feel broke 3 major rules of being head judge.
You do not try to fix contests for friends.
You do not look at the judges ballots.
You do not reveal to dancers who judges are picking.

This dancer and I still help one another with our outfits. This is what I could give him as a friend. Encourage him, help with ideas, and tell him I respect him more than anybody on the powwow trail.
For that head judge, i hope you are still my friend, but i have to say i cannot respect you as a head judge.

[powwowpro]

You know, I would rather not know how my friends judge. My friends are brutally honest and I know I have to earn their vote (I take nothin for granted). I get mad enough at myslef when I don't dance well, I don't need to see how others feel the same way (nuthin like rubbin salt in the ole' wound).

There used to be apowwow in New York that judged olympic style. That was pretty brutal cuz some fo the judges were very, shall we say ummmmm, they were very open in their putting a dacner they didn't like in their place regardless of how they danced. That takes guts to do that. I woulnd't want to be a judge like that (Olympic style), I woulnd't feel comfortable voting how I felt was right.

[joelmay04]

undefinedhey who said that pow-wows had to be fair??? i knonw you want them to be but i've been singing for a long time and you see stuff like guys getting to the pow-wow late and the commitee waiting till they get there to start the contest and guys not all there till sunday and they still take first. hell you could go on for days on this subject, bottom line if you don't like it then stick to tradish. if you think you can hang in there till they start to notice that yer that good, if you are that good, them things'll change. but don't ***** about something you can't change. hell that's how we lost our land in the first place, people don't know how to run things. seeing people younger than me , just graduating from highschool getting a house on the rez cause their ma works at the housing? an how long have i been on the list??? come on who do you know.

[Kanku Dai Warrior]

Ah Hello... Reality Check!!

There are many different ways to remedy the problem of cheating which is what has been going on for years. Some NDNS do not want the current system to change because the winners would also change if we had a system more like the olympic scoring system. Dancing for most of us is special and we all dance for different reasons whether it is to pay the bills, tradition, enjoyment, etc. What ever the reason you dance it has meaning to you and personally I feel that I am going to dance no matter what other people say about me or how they so called judge because I enjoy it, I have been dancing since I was 5, contests are not real contests anyway because there are too many variables that allow for errors and favoritism. What does seem to be important to people is that fact they feel like they are being cheated or judged unfairly. How sad. What amazes me is the lack of respect out there and the negative things that are being said, like, "just don't go" and what kind of friend would make you walk home if you did not pick them. What was that a joke or what?!! We all know that some of the same people go to the same powwows but just because they placed at a particular powwow one year doesn't mean they should place forever. There are dancers out there that bust their a-- that never seem to place and people wonder why? The judging system is out dated and needs to be changed to allow for everyone to have a fair chance to place and or win. I have also been to powwows where people have actually tried to manipulate the powwow, I have seen dancers fall down on the ground in competition, miss grand entries and still get first. What no deductions come on people. Be real with yourselves some competition powwows are rigged. Don't take it personal because it is just business. Keep on dancing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[taani]

...What amazes me is the lack of respect out there and the negative things that are being said, like, "just don't go"...

I say that because ppl just keep complaining about this and that....if you don't like something the easiest way to stop the complaining for yourself is to say.....just don't go.

[Kanku Dai Warrior]

Hey there

I understand why you are saying that and people, all over, have issues about the same things but in the long run that is how things get changed for the better.

[badmaninc]

undefinedhey who said that pow-wows had to be fair??? i knonw you want them to be but i've been singing for a long time and you see stuff like guys getting to the pow-wow late and the commitee waiting till they get there to start the contest and guys not all there till sunday and they still take first. hell you could go on for days on this subject, bottom line if you don't like it then stick to tradish. if you think you can hang in there till they start to notice that yer that good, if you are that good, them things'll change. but don't ***** about something you can't change. hell that's how we lost our land in the first place, people don't know how to run things. seeing people younger than me , just graduating from highschool getting a house on the rez cause their ma works at the housing? an how long have i been on the list??? come on who do you know.

Dude, you are intense. Made me start thinking about Al Pacino in DOG DAY AFTERNOON. That's some true stuff you're saying though. I had to go out and get a mortgage on my own cause if I waited for the Housing committee, I'd still be waiting.

[woggs]

Well just so you all know I feel the same way, I was just wondering if others did too.....oh and I wasn't griping or anything....but I don't mind how powwows are set up whether its a non contest or just a lil benefit or anything...ballots or hand pick...at home i dance at ALL powwows no matter what (I know my elders enjoy seeing their youth dancing and being proud, i just don't dance for myself I dance for my family, ect)....I've just been raised as a dancer..its been my lifestyle, its a priviledge for me to dance, (what would I do w/ out it)?? I'd probably spend my summer swimming or working or waiting for the weekend..i dunno..anyway, I'm not saying lets change things or lets be white, so please don't quote me it looks like my lil post IS MY OWN VIEWS, but its not..(which was a question a non dancer who powwows posed. they sing just so you know)..anyway everyone who powwows must love it, I know i do, even if i break down or go the whole weekend on "ndn steaks" Bologna sandwiches..
so are powwows rigged???In all honesty sometimes..but almost ALL of the time winners are based on dancing ability......luv ya all

[woggs]

PS...Just dance and feel good..if you place or not, ...hey it's the luv of dancing and hearing the good songs, and kicking it w/ frens, meetin new frens, showing your best to all, and just having a good time...I've really admired one guy who NEVER complains or talks bad or gets all butt-hurt about anything and that's George Abeyta(furiuolsy fancy)...he's who I try to model myself after..he's just a cool guy, he always treats people well even when they may be mean, he just stays cool!!
GEORGE yer my HERO!!!

[tallinjun]

I feel the same way as Taani. In my days on the east coast, I have showed up for a powwow and was feeling good. When grand entry rolls and I can see who is in my competition. I can get an idea what place I have a shot at. Even with me knowing how some powwows are, I still go not for the money but to dance and see friends that I have not seen for a while. That is the main reasons to go and I think some people in pw.com land forget this. Dancers got to realize that even though it feels good to get a few bucks in the pocket, it feels better ALL WEEKEND to be out there dancing. That is just my way of thinking. If you can't have fun just from dancing, then you shouldn't dance and shouldn't go.


Tallinjun

[taani]

Finally!!!!!

someone on my side LOL

Tallinjun- ya back now?