rigged powwows

[Roobz]

It's tough to judge when the talent is over whelming! You stand there and just Geez! how the hell am I going to figure this out? What does strike me though is to make certain selections and come Sunday Night your sitting there dumbfounded when the winners are announced? When a dancer get's the "Gate" and that person was on all weekend sure your gonna raise an eyebrow. Were all opinonated and we certainly have our favorites, but that's pretty natural right? I like how someone said 'Humans make mistakes" LOL No doubt! Although hopefully we learn from them and move on....

Yeah I agree

[Roobz]

Lol......I was in attendance at a powwow one time where they had a $100 protest fee. One dancer didn't get in we all saw the dancer march right up and slap a $100 bill on the table in front of the tabulators. The tabulators laid open the books right then for the dancer. That was kinda funny cuz I guess the dancer just didn't get very many points. The dancer just kinda slunk away. Sometimes it's better just not knowing....lol.

LOL paid $100 just to see a few points that sucks! They probably were like "Wish I hadn't paid and looked now!"

[rkbtmeyb]

Sometimes I wonder what powwows would be like if everyone who dances or sings had a job or was in school.........lol. Would there be less complaining? Less politic-ing?

That would be funny. "I gotta work in the morning, can you go up and complain for me?" LOL or "i have class" or "Sh!t I have higher degree than him!" LOL People will always find something to comaplin about. Its in some peoples nature. LOL

[Furiously-Fancy]

I guess I should clarify my idea of "open book". When I've worked, we have the sheets with all the points for all dancers available if anyone wants to check. Has the points from GE's, exhibitions, and contest rounds. We don't have the books open all weekend and we don't let people see the judges ballots. That to me would be unrealistic since it takes time to get through registration and get caught up by the time contests start.

One time I got a complaint a few days after the powwow where the dancer was questioning the tabulating. I told the dancer that they could come in and we would pull all the dance ballots for that category, GE sheets, exhibition sheets, and we would tabulate by hand all the points this dancer had. The dancer said, "You know, I might just do that" I never heard from the dancer after that.

I think if you're going to do the protest fee, it should be high enough to make people really think if they want to fork over the money, but not so high that people think you're hiding something.

Lol......I was in attendance at a powwow one time where they had a $100 protest fee. One dancer didn't get in we all saw the dancer march right up and slap a $100 bill on the table in front of the tabulators. The tabulators laid open the books right then for the dancer. That was kinda funny cuz I guess the dancer just didn't get very many points. The dancer just kinda slunk away. Sometimes it's better just not knowing....lol.

.......& u know someone else needed the contest $$$$$ more than someone who could fork out a 100 bucks to protest!DANG!!

One time I went and checked the books just to let the committee know I was concerned. I just opened the book and pretended to look at the points and said, "I don't think this is tallied right." Set the book down and walked off. Two days later the committee called me and told me they made a a mistake and the check is in the mail!!

[49in_ndn]

If they are pre-planned, how da hell do I place sometimes.

yeah me too..lmao

[CloudN9ne]

hmm........vampiro says we should have better powwows where no one is getting paid to run them!!! or having a company called powwow and making cash off of it!!! not to mention any names!!!? but i agree with Lakota Son with some of his words.....i did have a good time in richmond in november....but that was my first powwow i danced at in 14 months!!! but i alrady knew i was gonna place!!! but i give richmond a 4 because it needs more work to be an actual powwow!!! aho!!! Hey cha!!!!

[Kakeeya]

....i did have a good time in richmond in november....but that was my first powwow i danced at in 14 months!!! but i alrady knew i was gonna place!!! but i give richmond a 4 because it needs more work to be an actual powwow!!! aho!!! Hey cha!!!!

[bearcub]

I feel sad that anyone can be so disheartened about anything as beautiful as pow wows. I love to dance. I would like to win every week, but I don't and I still love to dance. I also like seeing the dancers that win a lot. Many of them are my favorites. Competition just makes us all work harder, but everyone has to face the reality that some judging systems are not perfect. Don't judge your own ability on what others say, be true to your own heart and dance for your own satisfaction. Good luck on getting your good pow wow spirit back.

[hazey420247]

ha ha thats a funny one....but somepws r kinda like fixed i'm not sayin ALL of them now...i've heard of one in particular where the DAUGHTER of one of organizers got third or second - can't remember right now and she only danced sunday. now like that's mathematically impossible.

buy you do run into "local yokal" favorites everyplace i'm sure everyone can contest to that and if you're not a local yokal favorite or sic of them ALWAYS placin you'd probably think ALL pws are fixed

it is not mathematically impossible,my son did it, had asked why and was told he won fair and square, first place to boot! He recieved all first place votes and only danced 1 day,2 sessions!!from canada at a minnesota pow-wow

[flicker_fan2005]

visitors being treated like a alien

I had travelled to powwows in Virginia, Maryland and North Carolina, and the locals looked at me as if to say, what are you doing here. Needless to say i never placed along with a few other visitors.
Now that i am more familiar with that area, I see the same judges, head dancers at every powwow in that area, same, mc, same host drum, right down to same tabulator. Are these powwows put on by one family or group?

[ndnmba]

I really like what woggs and 2cents had to say. There are alot of different ways of trying to manipulate the judges and books. I remember hanging out at a pow-wow with a dancer (or a member of her family) that would go stand to the side or up to the announcers stand behind the judges to watch who the judges were picking when her mom and sisters were being judged. They would then mad-dog anyone who they thought didn't vote for them.

[Privateer6]

Flicker,
Sorry you had a bad experience in NC. I just moved here about a year ago and have been treated very well. I was very welcomed at the Tuscaroura Powwow in Maxton, Coharie in Clinton, and NCSSM in Durham.
As for seeing the same drums, head staff, etc I don't have an answer for that.
GJJudd

[woggs]

I went to a powwow that had funny winners, and when you signed for your money it had all the points on the paper you signed..and THATS how I found out the winners were funny, It was becuase SPOT CHECKS were huge points....so thats why some good dancers didn't place so high..I thought that was pretty cool ( to have all points out in the open) because I was wondering how some got shut out or placed so low..Not sayinig it should be done always, but no one could complain becuase everyone knew why...I've heard of people ALWAYS wantiing to argue or see their points...so I see a reason why protest fees are good but, I also see how good it is when the points are up there and out in the open..So either way, if a dancer really feels cheated than it is good that they check it out..I was at another powwow where some dancers who weren't as good as this one guy beat him, and he went ahead a paid the protest fee..and he found out that he actually had first, the points from his group weren't added..ALL WEEKEND!! CRAZY HUH??? So the commitee sent him the money and apologized..because they didnt catch it..It was at a little small powwow though.

[NDNQt]

Flicker Fan, if you are talking about powwows like Richmond, Howard County, Martinsburg, etc. yes these powwows are put on by the same organization as per Cloud N9ne the company is called "Pow Wow". And yes we have the same staff. We have been doing these powwows for years so of course it is the same folks at them. I can assure you that they are not rigged because I am the tabulator. Like I have said many times if I was going to cheat I would do it for my friends instead of other folks. But of course you can't please everybody all of the time. And I am sorry you weren't welcomed when you came. Hopefully if you come back you will feel more welcome.

[flicker_fan2005]

Drum roll call and sot checks

I feel that powwows should list how many points spot checks are worth and how many spot checks a session. I feel spot checks are only to please the crowd and to give them their monies worth.
It should be no different for drum roll call, list how many points will be deducted per singer missing at drum roll call.
All of this can be announced by the mc, or printed directly in the powwow program.
I have seen a lot of good dancers get the gates because of these point systems.
These points should have minimal impact on the final outcome.
Bottom line, this is how many people manipulate the outcome.