rigged powwows

[badmaninc]

I've been to one powwow where they keep track of all the judges they use for the categories and they don't use the same judges at all throughout the competition. They even have them judge one category. You know how some powwows they judge all the teens and then all the adult categories. At this powwow they use a different judge for each category. Worked out well. Course the people who are local celebs don't get to count on that at this powwow and don't like it that much. I wonder why.

[2cuteUTE]

I saw a guy get all bent out of shape when he hadn’t placed high enough (he took 2nd). He stormed up to the committee and asked to see the books. Well come to find out he was right, they had placed him wrong (according to the numbers) he actually took 3rd. The guy who they gave 3rd actually took 1st and the guy that they placed as 1st took 2nd. (He was long gone by the way with the 1st place loot).

Now if the guy who made the original complaint had just kept his mouth shut and left it alone, he would have come out with 2nd place pay instead of 3rd. The committee asked for his envelope back and tried to make it right by all the participants in that category.

[mountaindew]

My complaint about rigged powwows is that at some of the powwows, they use the same judges all weekend. They probably vote the same way every time. I just can't understand why they do that. Out of all the dancers that show up and other non-dancing knowledgeable people there, why they pick the same ones is beyond me. Oh yeah, I remember at this one powwow, this one dancer went to check on the points and came back saying they didn't have any points. I just happened to be in that vicinity when I heard this, so I told that person that they had to have some points because I judged that category and I know for certain that I put their number down. I couldn't help myself, I just had to tell that person. I guess maybe that powwow was rigged.

[skinjun]

flicker fan 2005

I went out east and had bad experiences too. they're not welcoming people. I went to Baltimore, New Jersey, Virginia, North Carolina. They acted like they were better. This is gonna sound bad, but only a handful looked native. I will not return to the east ever again.

[woggs]

Oops I think my lil post was misleading..so I fixed what i thought was sort of cool..I wasn't saying spot checks were cool..LOL...

[flicker_fan2005]

Drum roll call and sot checks

I feel that powwows should list how many points spot checks are worth and how many spot checks a session. I feel spot checks are only to please the crowd and to give them their monies worth.
It should be no different for drum roll call, list how many points will be deducted per singer missing at drum roll call.
All of this can be announced by the mc, or printed directly in the powwow program.
I have seen a lot of good dancers get the gates because of these point systems.
These points should have minimal impact on the final outcome.
Bottom line, this is how many people manipulate the outcome.

[NDNQt]

Flicker Fan, if you are talking about powwows like Richmond, Howard County, Martinsburg, etc. yes these powwows are put on by the same organization as per Cloud N9ne the company is called "Pow Wow". And yes we have the same staff. We have been doing these powwows for years so of course it is the same folks at them. I can assure you that they are not rigged because I am the tabulator. Like I have said many times if I was going to cheat I would do it for my friends instead of other folks. But of course you can't please everybody all of the time. And I am sorry you weren't welcomed when you came. Hopefully if you come back you will feel more welcome.

[woggs]

I went to a powwow that had funny winners, and when you signed for your money it had all the points on the paper you signed..and THATS how I found out the winners were funny, It was becuase SPOT CHECKS were huge points....so thats why some good dancers didn't place so high..I thought that was pretty cool ( to have all points out in the open) because I was wondering how some got shut out or placed so low..Not sayinig it should be done always, but no one could complain becuase everyone knew why...I've heard of people ALWAYS wantiing to argue or see their points...so I see a reason why protest fees are good but, I also see how good it is when the points are up there and out in the open..So either way, if a dancer really feels cheated than it is good that they check it out..I was at another powwow where some dancers who weren't as good as this one guy beat him, and he went ahead a paid the protest fee..and he found out that he actually had first, the points from his group weren't added..ALL WEEKEND!! CRAZY HUH??? So the commitee sent him the money and apologized..because they didnt catch it..It was at a little small powwow though.

[GJJudd]

Flicker,
Sorry you had a bad experience in NC. I just moved here about a year ago and have been treated very well. I was very welcomed at the Tuscaroura Powwow in Maxton, Coharie in Clinton, and NCSSM in Durham.
As for seeing the same drums, head staff, etc I don't have an answer for that.
GJJudd

[ndnmba]

I really like what woggs and 2cents had to say. There are alot of different ways of trying to manipulate the judges and books. I remember hanging out at a pow-wow with a dancer (or a member of her family) that would go stand to the side or up to the announcers stand behind the judges to watch who the judges were picking when her mom and sisters were being judged. They would then mad-dog anyone who they thought didn't vote for them.

[flicker_fan2005]

visitors being treated like a alien

I had travelled to powwows in Virginia, Maryland and North Carolina, and the locals looked at me as if to say, what are you doing here. Needless to say i never placed along with a few other visitors.
Now that i am more familiar with that area, I see the same judges, head dancers at every powwow in that area, same, mc, same host drum, right down to same tabulator. Are these powwows put on by one family or group?

[hazey420247]

ha ha thats a funny one....but somepws r kinda like fixed i'm not sayin ALL of them now...i've heard of one in particular where the DAUGHTER of one of organizers got third or second - can't remember right now and she only danced sunday. now like that's mathematically impossible.

buy you do run into "local yokal" favorites everyplace i'm sure everyone can contest to that and if you're not a local yokal favorite or sic of them ALWAYS placin you'd probably think ALL pws are fixed

it is not mathematically impossible,my son did it, had asked why and was told he won fair and square, first place to boot! He recieved all first place votes and only danced 1 day,2 sessions!!from canada at a minnesota pow-wow

[bearcub]

I feel sad that anyone can be so disheartened about anything as beautiful as pow wows. I love to dance. I would like to win every week, but I don't and I still love to dance. I also like seeing the dancers that win a lot. Many of them are my favorites. Competition just makes us all work harder, but everyone has to face the reality that some judging systems are not perfect. Don't judge your own ability on what others say, be true to your own heart and dance for your own satisfaction. Good luck on getting your good pow wow spirit back.

[Kakeeya]

....i did have a good time in richmond in november....but that was my first powwow i danced at in 14 months!!! but i alrady knew i was gonna place!!! but i give richmond a 4 because it needs more work to be an actual powwow!!! aho!!! Hey cha!!!!

[CloudN9ne]

hmm........vampiro says we should have better powwows where no one is getting paid to run them!!! or having a company called powwow and making cash off of it!!! not to mention any names!!!? but i agree with Lakota Son with some of his words.....i did have a good time in richmond in november....but that was my first powwow i danced at in 14 months!!! but i alrady knew i was gonna place!!! but i give richmond a 4 because it needs more work to be an actual powwow!!! aho!!! Hey cha!!!!