Let's Talk GRAND ENTRYS

[Hinu Star]

I just saw some old pictures of grand entries. I want to say that the pictures are circa 1890 (if i remember correctly)
It showed the men comming in on horses dressed to impress! The pictures were of Omaha and some of Winnebago (HoChunk). any hoo... pretty neat...

[Fringesnapper]

If someone doesn't want to dance during grand entry, they shouldn't be obligated too. No one is holding a gun to their head. Its all about choice. If you aren't dressed on time, so what? Maybe you need to manage your time better, if you want to dance during grand entry.

But if they are one of those that thinks they will win, or do this for a living you better be on time, or have a judge on the payroll, or be that good when you dance to win. If you don't win. Maybe you need to re-evaluate your choice of career as a dancer. Its not all about winning though. I thought dancing was about prayer and dancing for those that can't dance. Its the sign of the times when money is involved. Need to have it. Or its nice to win, but its not the priority? Some Ndns just like to dance.

Well said SoldierBoy..... may our heavenly Father keep his arms around you as you protect all of us. Thank you for your prospective. Take care.

[makesHERlulu]

I'm with OLDSCHOOL on this one. Up here in Pawnee it was them WWI Veterans who brought in the WWII Veterans into the arena, just after World War 2 was over. Therefore the "parade in" was lined with Veteran's first then the different Clubs aka War Mothers, Service Club and so on.

Pretty cool to visuallize the old WWI veterans and their singers bringing in all the Veterans, clubs, dancers and so forth.

[sexypanthergyrl]

Call it what you will but any type of grouping or people gathering together should have a welcoming. Call it grand entry, parading, welcoming anything involving Creators children to come together and have relations deserves a formal introduction of every person involved. Thus the grand entry the welcoming of all to the circle.

[WhoMe]

Therefore the "parade in" was lined with Veteran's first then the different Clubs aka War Mothers, Service Club and so on.

Pretty cool to visuallize the old WWI veterans and their singers bringing in all the Veterans, clubs, dancers and so forth.

Including the "Pocahonta's Club?"

[SingingDeer]

You got it right on the head there Who Me.

The Grand Entry for the Native American Powwows was developed from the Grand Entry of the Wild West Shows and the Rodeos of the 19th Century.

It slowly became a part of the Native Powwow across the country in the 20th Century. This took a long time as you could find many events that did not use a Grand Entry as late as the early 1970's. But as time moved on the Grand Entry became almost fully mainstreamed by the late 1970's and early 1980's across both the United States and Canada.

There are many Elders that can easily remember no such thing as a Grand Entry.

Thanks Tom, this is the way it's been related to me too.

... (I hate round dancing) ...

me too - it's hard on the knees and hips.... I try to avoid it (dancing sideways that is)

I've only been late for GE once in recent memory... so I came in behind the women fancy shawl dancers. Since I don't dance in contests, they didn't seem to mind. Other times I was late, I just stood with the onlookers, then joined in the veterans' dance. GE is usually optional for at the pow wows I've been to.

As far as giving points to contest entrants for GE, I've never seen them do that around here.... it doesn't mean that they don't do it. I'm just not aware of it.

[quapawgirl]

grand entries

what i remember is aunt denie and aunt claudia and others started a point system to keep the competion for prize moneis intrested i guess because i remember being thrilled getting trophy or just aknowledge as one of the winners.

[morning water]

[Leaping Deer]

Up here in New England there are alot of pow-wows that do have a rear guard. I know because i'm the one that picks the warriors to dance there with me. I was told by an elder warrior That it was a place of honor to protect the women and children. And i like being the last to enter and be recognized as being a veteran warrior.

[SingingDeer]

Up here in New England there are alot of pow-wows that do have a rear guard. I know because i'm the one that picks the warriors to dance there with me. I was told by an elder warrior That it was a place of honor to protect the women and children. And i like being the last to enter and be recognized as being a veteran warrior.

I've heard of that... haven't seen much practice of it around here... I wonder why? I'd consider it an honor to be the rear guard. It's where I always was in ranks unless I was carrying a flag.

[blackraven26b]

im not a vet so forgive me for saying this like i was...but......when you are able to do something like that you should hold it as if it was a great honor..like he said you dont see that much..things dont get practiced like they should ne more....

[SingingDeer]

I'm aware of that....I was mainly wondering why the tradition has been "dropped" from so many pow wow grand entries. personally... I'd like to see it returned to the grand entry and I'm even thinking about approaching the local pow wow people to see what their interest is in having a rear guard.

[Fringesnapper]

In Oklahoma...I know Pawnee's always had a parade in with the drum coming it and the veterans. I always respected their ways. It wasn't necessary for you to parade in unless you wanted to. Grand Entries as we know them today are for the point system. The point system was a northern thing and came into Oklahoma in the 60's when one of the southern pow wow chairman saw it done while visiting with friends in the northern states. Among my Ponca people, the head staff consisted of a head singer and head man dancer. We didn't always have head lady dancers, head gourd dancers, head teen boy, head teen girl and etc. No one danced until the head man dancer stood up to dance after the calling song. The gourd dance wasn't common as it is today either. Before the evening dances...they round danced for an hour where all the women showed off their best shawls and most of the women that were dancing sang. It was a sight to see and to hear. This has been replaced in this day with gourd dance. I'm sorry Quapaw girl but Deanie and Claudia did not start this here or anywhere else. What bothers me is seeing dancers dressed and standing around outside the arena until it's time for them to have to dance or contest. Dancers sat on benches provided for them and they sat between songs. The changes I see these days sometime seem disrespectful but I'm no one special and dancers will do what they please anyway. I just wanted to say these few things. And....there were times for memorial songs to be sung where we gave things away in memory of a lost loved one. This wasn't done when dancers were standing after the grand entry. When I said gave away..I meant to just walk to the one you wanted to give something to...give it and be done with it.

Thanks Morning Water - this is the way I remember things, too. I'm no one special either, but it really gets to me when dancers are outside the arena just hanging around for their contest song, and when people are disrespectful to the drums. I have lost tolerance for new drums to practice during prayers, flag songs, etc. Sometimes I'm better off staying away because it just gets the best of me sometimes. I long for the old times.........

[SingingDeer]

Thanks Morning Water - this is the way I remember things, too. I'm no one special either, but it really gets to me when dancers are outside the arena just hanging around for their contest song, and when people are disrespectful to the drums. I have lost tolerance for new drums to practice during prayers, flag songs, etc. Sometimes I'm better off staying away because it just gets the best of me sometimes. I long for the old times.........

....oh for the old times....

I definitely agree with you there...

drum practicing is not respectful during another group's song ...

I don't recall any pow wows that I've been to where it was even allowed...
I've been to some where the drums were given time to "warm up" before GE...
then they were told that they could not drum while another drum was singing

[ndnsooner]

Hey-cha

Grand Entry came from Rodeo's, to give every one a chance to watch for their favorite dancer. Point system didn't come about until the early 80's.