Let's Talk GRAND ENTRYS

[FluteMaker]

>>If I practice every day I should be ready for the real deal next year.


be careful patric, once you get it,then you got it. i warned a guy down in florida about how addictive flutes are and told him he'd have at least a dozen by the end of the year. last i heard he had bought number 9.and hes got 3 months to go.

let me know if you need any help with playing

[between2worlds]

>>If I practice every day I should be ready for the real deal next year.


be careful patric, once you get it,then you got it. i warned a guy down in florida about how addictive flutes are and told him he'd have at least a dozen by the end of the year. last i heard he had bought number 9.and hes got 3 months to go.

let me know if you need any help with playing

*grin* if I could afford a dozen $500+ flutes inna year I'd lose my FBI (fully broke ndn) card!

I sent you an IM with my questions since flute playing is -waaaaaaaay- off topic for this thread.

M'gwitch

[FluteMaker]

*grin* if I could afford a dozen $500+ flutes inna year I'd lose my FBI (fully broke ndn) card!

I sent you an IM with my questions since flute playing is -waaaaaaaay- off topic for this thread.

M'gwitch

as long as you mentioned that....

im off work for a back injury right now so ive been spending alot of time looking the dance style pages here at pw.com and ive actually thought about dancing next year. ive already got bad knees, now ive got a bad back. i was looking at maybe getting into the straight dancing.just because it seems (from the video clips ive seen) to be a less aggressive more stately dance style than some of the others.
how do y'all suppose it would go over if i used a flute in place of the standard dance stick in the grand entry?or even in general for that matter

[TKMJ Productions]

as long as you mentioned that....

im off work for a back injury right now so ive been spending alot of time looking the dance style pages here at pw.com and ive actually thought about dancing next year. ive already got bad knees, now ive got a bad back. i was looking at maybe getting into the straight dancing.just because it seems (from the video clips ive seen) to be a less aggressive more stately dance style than some of the others.
how do y'all suppose it would go over if i used a flute in place of the standard dance stick in the grand entry?or even in general for that matter

In my oponion I don't think a flute is a good subsatute for a cane or war club. Now talking war clubes and canes, I have seen some great ideas. I have seen both open into swords and other fun devices. You may want to make a flute that looks like a war club, but plays well when at camp.

Take your questions to the straight dancing threads. You'll get a better responce.

Ken

[SuzzeQ4]

Well this has all been very interesting to read. I think I got a few questions to ask some ppl now...lol
That grand entery has been come a part of powwow just is, & lets face it living cultures add to traditions, thats how it works, only dead cultures stay stagnant...But I think it is important to know how & why something new got added.
I dance only trad powwows, so it's not about points...at least not there.
I do think ppl ought to be respectful during them...it just seems right. I did have however allowed my children to leave (when they were toddlers) for a pee break. Now that they are older they just gotta hold it like the rest of us.
I think if they started any earlier I'd go crazy. It takes a long time to dress myself & 4 kids, & do hair, & take them all to the fire, & get somethin in thier belly before grand entry& make sure they all went to the bathroom first...you see point of view...lol
I have heard the MC call the order with teens & children at the end, but at the smaller powwows, this is generally disregarded, and the children line up with thier family members in thier catagories & the tots line up with the moms or dads regardless of catagory. Which to me makes sense but proobably cause thats what I'm used to.
I believe the idea of Men entering first (I asked once) is to ensure that the area being entered was safe, I was also told that this is generally true regardless of culture & is less about shovanism & more about chivilary, which to me makes sense.
However...all that being said my oldest daughter doesn't dance grand entery anymore. She is very sensitive to ppl emotions and there are often alot of tense ppl at grand entry all worried about doing it right, she feels that & it gives her a stmoach ach (different emotions effect different parts of her body). So we talked to her grandma & it was suggested that she skip grand entery & instead help my hubby tidy up the tent & bring down the chiars.
Suzze

[FluteMaker]

Well this has all been very interesting to read. I think I got a few questions to ask some ppl now...lol
That grand entery has been come a part of powwow just is, & lets face it living cultures add to traditions, thats how it works, only dead cultures stay stagnant...But I think it is important to know how & why something new got added.
I dance only trad powwows, so it's not about points...at least not there.
I do think ppl ought to be respectful during them...it just seems right. I did have however allowed my children to leave (when they were toddlers) for a pee break. Now that they are older they just gotta hold it like the rest of us.
I think if they started any earlier I'd go crazy. It takes a long time to dress myself & 4 kids, & do hair, & take them all to the fire, & get somethin in thier belly before grand entry& make sure they all went to the bathroom first...you see point of view...lol
I have heard the MC call the order with teens & children at the end, but at the smaller powwows, this is generally disregarded, and the children line up with thier family members in thier catagories & the tots line up with the moms or dads regardless of catagory. Which to me makes sense but proobably cause thats what I'm used to.
I believe the idea of Men entering first (I asked once) is to ensure that the area being entered was safe, I was also told that this is generally true regardless of culture & is less about shovanism & more about chivilary, which to me makes sense.
However...all that being said my oldest daughter doesn't dance grand entery anymore. She is very sensitive to ppl emotions and there are often alot of tense ppl at grand entry all worried about doing it right, she feels that & it gives her a stmoach ach (different emotions effect different parts of her body). So we talked to her grandma & it was suggested that she skip grand entery & instead help my hubby tidy up the tent & bring down the chiars.
Suzze

im originally from the midwest, born and raised in chicago. ive seen some interesting things at powwows here in the east as opposed to the midwest. usually its the arena directors duty to stage dancers for the grand entry with what groups go in first and what order people within that group go. one thing ive noticed out here is they dont do the fire so much. when the do its more of and 'eternal flame' kinda thing as opposed to the dancers smokin up the regalia or the smokin up the drums.ive also noticed that the powwows out here seems to be run more loosly than in the west

[SuzzeQ4]

yeah, in the last few years I have noticed a lack of detail towards the fire. Alot of communities picking a local teen, who doesn't have the training & teachings.
My husband used to do fire keeping, after spending summers being trained by his elders (for 4 years). So we make sure our kids know what is expected at the fire etc. There are some powwows still doing a good fire with a well trained fire keeper.
It's sad, I beileve that this is the part of the powwow that absolutly MUST be done properly
Suzze

[anishinabealltheway]

I read an article in ''Whispering Wind" about the origin of the grand entry. From what I gather, at a pow wow sometime in I think the 30's, the MC had to cancel at the last minute, there was a rodeo going on at the same time. So, the pow wow committee asked a rodeo MC to sit in , unfamilliar with the pow wow scheduel, he improvised a grand entery that was based on the grand entery held at rodeos.

[FluteMaker]

yeah, in the last few years I have noticed a lack of detail towards the fire. Alot of communities picking a local teen, who doesn't have the training & teachings.
My husband used to do fire keeping, after spending summers being trained by his elders (for 4 years). So we make sure our kids know what is expected at the fire etc. There are some powwows still doing a good fire with a well trained fire keeper.
It's sad, I beileve that this is the part of the powwow that absolutly MUST be done properly
Suzze

ihad taken my nephew to a powwow years ago when he was about 4 years old, in zion,ill once. i took him out to the fire and was telling him about the whys and wherefors.we were a good 15 -20 feet away from the fire and the fire keeper started yelling at us about approaching the fire from the proper direction.
he was unnessesarilly rude about it,since we hadnt actually got to the fire( which i knew to not walk up on from the south) but at least he wasnt lollygaggin about his job

[SuzzeQ4]

ihad taken my nephew to a powwow years ago when he was about 4 years old, in zion,ill once. i took him out to the fire and was telling him about the whys and wherefors.we were a good 15 -20 feet away from the fire and the fire keeper started yelling at us about approaching the fire from the proper direction.
he was unnessesarilly rude about it,since we hadnt actually got to the fire( which i knew to not walk up on from the south) but at least he wasnt lollygaggin about his job

Although it is good that there was no loolygaggin, it's a real shame that this happened, my husband (and the other fire keepers we are friends with) have all been taught that teaching about the fire & helping ppl around the fire is part of thier job. Some of the fire keepers I know go out of thier way no meet ppl on the out skirts of the fire & ask them if they need any help, or have any questions. The biggest shame is that to a 4 yr old he must have seemed scary, & he probably wouldn't have wanted to return to a fire again for a while.
Suzze

[FluteMaker]

Although it is good that there was no loolygaggin, it's a real shame that this happened, my husband (and the other fire keepers we are friends with) have all been taught that teaching about the fire & helping ppl around the fire is part of thier job. Some of the fire keepers I know go out of thier way no meet ppl on the out skirts of the fire & ask them if they need any help, or have any questions. The biggest shame is that to a 4 yr old he must have seemed scary, & he probably wouldn't have wanted to return to a fire again for a while.
Suzze

i dunno, on one hand theres no scaring my nephew. even when he was 4 he was ten feet tall and bulletproof. he had a pic line set and didnt even flinch.
but you have to take into account the level of mass ignorence these guys have to deal with.
the firekeeper at that powwow didnt know me, he didnt know if i knew anything at all and after 3 days of keeping the fire and dealing with the uninitiated and stupid people too how much patience can he realisticly be expected to have left?
same deal for the rest of the staff. at a gathering in WV i saw a woman take a swing at the AD because he asked her to leave the circle untill she was dressed more modestly.
she was wearing a broom skirt with thong straps pulled up to her armpits and tank top with no bra.
after she was made to leave the circle she complained to the MC,the vendors,anyone who would listen. i always had the understanding the AD ran the circle and his word was final.
ive seen people escorted from powwows for getting or being drunk when it was well advertised that it was a sober event.
now ive never been an arena director or an emcee or even been on a powwow commitee, but im fairly confident that the general public can be quite trying on the staff.
i think they deserve a bit of lattitude and understanding

[warriorsociety06]

there is always a blessing at the beginning and at the end of things so that things will be somewhat okay during the pow wow event and after, when we travel to our homes or to the next pow wow. did we forget the one powerful bird that sacrificed his life so that he can carry our prayers and use his feathers. the beating of the drum signifying the beat of our heart. the different colors, red ,yellow and blueall signifying the four directions and didn,t we forget about our creator whom brought us to this world. it gets more complicated when the whiteman comes.all the traditional beliefs no longer exist. now its about money.

[WhoMe]

It's nice to see the Gourd Dancers come in at the GE. And I pretty sure they're not doing it for points but for representation. I've seen alot of people go through GE or have been invited to "lead" the dancers in and have kind of a privilaged or yet an honoured expression and attitude throughout the powwow. With Gourd we simply start singing and start the dancing, after the first few songs of course, no special GE's, or at least I haven't witnessed one yet.

Tiyo,

To the best of my knowledge, gourd dancers participating in the grand entry began in New Mexico!

In Oklahoma, when gourd dance was over, they simply put their outfits away.

Times have changed of course and now they are in the grand entry. But I saw this in New Mexico before it became standard procedure where gourd dances take place.

[superndngyrl]

Here in AZ, the make you stand while the MC introduces everyone on the planet. Sometimes everyone is left standing a very long time.

In OK, after GE we go right into the round dance and then after thats done, the MC introduces everyone. At this time everyone is seated so you can see the person being introduced.

I think the order isn't that important. Of course the staff and flags are first, followed by head staff and princesses, etc. But I like how in some GEs they change up the rest of the order. On Saturday afternoons it will be teens, jrs, and tiny tots up front, then on Saturday evening it will begin with Women and then on Sunday it will be the Men leading the way.

[Gledanh Zhinga]

I remember the "parade in" at Ponca in the 50's. The drum was already in the center but the dancers had an entry where the veteran's groups were ID'd by the announcers (Dana Knight and Logan Deloge). There were many women's groups at that time, especially war mothers, many of whom had their shawls with club insignias. After parade in, the round dances started, and the women dominated. Many of the women had beaded high heeled shoes. The parade in was more tribal specific at that time, although dancers from other tribes were present at the powwow, of course.

The later, larger grand entries grew because of the point system.