into the west T.V. movie on TNT

[paulflores]

[B]ok i did not know where else to go with this question,but how many of us watched the first part of spielberg's new tvt flick? my question is how did some of us feel about the partial sundance scenes? where did they get clearance for these things? i'm starting to see more and more "public"info on this and other religous rites lately on line.again this si just a feed back questions on some of the feelings of others.please forgive me if i have upset anyone or anyone's feelings or ways by asking these things.

[suthernwaterbird]

well whats done is done really, but would they should have done, was after the show they should have explained the dances and what they were dancing for and the whole 9 yards. Just as long as they do it right, I don't have a problem. Don't want to have to knock someone out because they are runnin around referring to the sundance like they do the "raindance".

[veritasxl]

I was surprised too, there's another thread on this. Out here in Cali, we already have non-ndns putting on sweats for about $300. who claim they got permission from joeblow medicine man. But I don't think they'll 'try this one at home'. At least not in the city anyway.

[tipis]

Indians are selling their culture all over the place. There have been sundances around the US...but you do not hear about them. They are secret...and for a good reason and someone is making a good buck off it.

Hey, anyone now a days can put on a Sundance. Look how many "Natives" are going over to Europe and putting them on out there, for a price, to non Natives. Who has sold out whom...might be the question here.

[Veon]

Sundance?

I'm not an authority on Sundances....been to one once in S.Dakata, many years ago. This is not first time the Sundance has been depcitedI in TV or in movies. Some of you may remember "A Man Called Horse" and a few other Hollywood productions. I noticed on this TNT show that the dance was not shown in its entire detail, For instance, the character did not have the dance attire, including whistle bone.

Its just as well, because you don't necessarily want ALL the details shown on TV or to the mass public. Another example of protecting the sacredness that comes to my minid, is the Navajo sandpaintings. There are thousands of sandpaintings sold commercially, but from what I was told, these designs are deliberately incomplete or inaccurate, to protect the sacredness.

So a depiction of a dance, without all the details, is fine w/me. Otherwise, I enjoyed the show. A few minor glitches, but you can't expect Hollywood to get everything down pat. SOMEDAY, perhaps.

[Plenty Fox]

I was surprised too, there's another thread on this. Out here in Cali, we already have non-ndns putting on sweats for about $300. who claim they got permission from joeblow medicine man. But I don't think they'll 'try this one at home'. At least not in the city anyway.

plastic shamans...like Leonard CrowDog, and I don't mind saying it...to charge for a SunDance...and one of 'our own'? I see more harm in 'medicine for sale' by people like this than I do Spielberg's production. I actually thought it was quite good. I did not see the usual Hollywood stereotype. And, I think Spielberg's sense of perfection wouldn't allow it. What viewers did see in the limited airtime was a different perspective than a Dances With Wolves. It gave a realistic portrayal of how we lived as People, whether we were Lakota or Mojave. Face it, White folks think all NDNs are alike...not. The importance of the Bison, the dangers of the hunt..I've never seen any other film deal with a buffalo jump and there are precious few of those sites left, not to mention the Bison. It was awesome. This isn't a documentary which would have required dissection of the SunDance, which would've been offensive. I read here a contradiction. We question the propriety of representation of the SunDance but then wish it had 'been explained'. I'd rather it not be explained... because, again, all NDNs are not alike, and one explanation wouldn't necessarily be a 'one size fits all'. I preferred this rendition to, what was it, 'A Man Called Horse' or some such nonsense? Later in the show we will have to see what Spielberg does with 'Ghost Dance' and Wovoka. Meantime, I'm going to pull up my armchair every weekend. Thanks for listening!

and, oh, yes, "Loved By Buffalo" did have the whistle...watch it again...

[veritasxl]

Plenty Fox and Proud, you brought up some very good points. Oh, I saw the whistle too.

[paulflores]

movie

i would like to say thanks to all of everyones feed back.up here there is a few people who trying to charege for sweats and some off the other things.I've headr of some one last year charging for a sundance.one of the other things i've noticed is that there is a lot of "new agers" tryin to b ndn aswell.i don't mind "explaining ""sometthings" but when they start asking questions within sacred areas thats when i tell them that is not for me to answee or say anything about.again thaks to all. p.s. i think some things should have been left out,i wonder what will be in there next?

[Veon]

I stand corrected, I did see the whistle bone. I watched it again and saw more details.

[Tradish Nish]

Hollywood sux!!!!!!!!

i think hollywood is bullsheet...i actually didn't bother to watch the TV special because i knew i wouldn't agree with what is being shown. With the ammount of social issues and racism in this country is it really a good thing to continue to portray native people in such ways? Why do all the men have braids and wear loin cloths and the woman depicted as keepers of their men? Who are these people who feel they can show ceremonies at there will when the viewers have no clue what they are watching anyway? it all sickens me...just like all those dumd azz actresses who are wearing FAKE moccs..

[skybird5]

Not Impressed

I ended up watching most of it just to see any *cute* actors. There weren't really any. I thought the show had way more gore than was necessary...even CGI gore with those poor buffalo!! And then the guy w/ his scalp that came off...it was a line right out of another Hollywood movie..."Sew my eyebrow back on". LAME.
And the Sundance scene was lame also, last time I checked sun dance songs didn't sound like intertribals! Granted they didn't have to have the actual songs, but heck...they didn't have to have the sundance in the movie either.
A good friend of mine said the other day..Why does it always have to be the Lakota??? Didn't the people coming west encounter any other tribes like the Crow, the Comanche or someone else???? Which is a pretty good question, considering AZ is pretty much west and we have 21 different tribes here and they only put Geronimo in the movies...haha.

[geronimo]

I ended up watching most of it just to see any *cute* actors. There weren't really any. I thought the show had way more gore than was necessary...even CGI gore with those poor buffalo!! And then the guy w/ his scalp that came off...it was a line right out of another Hollywood movie..."Sew my eyebrow back on". LAME.
And the Sundance scene was lame also, last time I checked sun dance songs didn't sound like intertribals! Granted they didn't have to have the actual songs, but heck...they didn't have to have the sundance in the movie either.
A good friend of mine said the other day..Why does it always have to be the Lakota??? Didn't the people coming west encounter any other tribes like the Crow, the Comanche or someone else???? Which is a pretty good question, considering AZ is pretty much west and we have 21 different tribes here and they only put Geronimo in the movies...haha.

hey, what about the spears boys?? i think they're HOTTIES! shoot, for that matter, the jacob wheeler dude didn't look 1/2 bad to me either................
well, as for the hollywood head honcho sioux-lovers, i think they let the cheyenne be in this one a little:):)

[Joe G]

[QUOTE=skybird5]I ended up watching most of it just to see any *cute* actors. There weren't really any. I thought the show had way more gore than was necessary...even CGI gore with those poor buffalo!! And then the guy w/ his scalp that came off...it was a line right out of another Hollywood movie..."Sew my eyebrow back on". LAME.

Well not to Hugh Glass. He was a mountainman who was mauled by a Grizzly...sewn back together..abandoned for dead...left w/o weapons or provisions, and made his way hundreds of miles back..and did live. This is a historical fact...that Hollywood uses often tho....as in the Jeremiah Johnson movie..w/ Robt Redford.

[tanksida]

Into The West...

Okay, this movie in my opinion was WAAYYY OFF!! First of all, no disrespect to my homegirl Tonantzin Carmelo...BUT Spielberg got it all wrong...if the movie is to be about the Lakota, then why do they have non-Lakota actors trying to be Lakota?? Acting is acting I suppose, but this movie sucked big time...especially the part about the Sundance. I've been to a Sundance or two in my life and I'd be pretty scared if I were any of those actors in that scene...I was always told that the Sundance is strictly ceremonial...it should not even be acted out, unless it is being done ceremonially...I don't know... the whole scene shocked me!! They showed wayy more than they even should have, or needed to...and if anyone knows about the Sundance Ceremony, they will know what I'm talking about...in my opinion, this movie crossed the line....They even show a whistle bone, granted it may have not been "real" but the whole enactment really made me nervous..and granted they may not have been singing the sundance songs in the scene, it still made me nervous to see the whole portrayal...if I'm a Dakota and know about the sundance, then non-Indians will see that and know our ways too. Traditional ceremonies should be kept out of the mainstream public, as they are in real life...people should just stop for a second and think about things...I swear...I feel sorry for the person who informed Spielberg about the whole Sundance Ceremony and what not!! Movies are NOT just movies...there is a point to everything and I just wish more people would "get it" instead of seeing dollar signs!! I won't be watching this movie anymore either...ugh!! I mean, what did our ancestors fight for anyhow??, for everything to be put out there for just mainstream society to see? It's one thing to be informative, but the sundance scene to me was wayyy out of the question, it should have been off limits...I am offended as Dakota...somethings are just uncuth...doesn't anybody get anything about sacredness?? Is there no sacredness anymore? Somebody better start praying...I know I am going to continue to, on this matter...and others.

[**jdazmum**]

Amazing, I have not seen the movie, but the thread title interested me. I have to agree with most of you who think about what Hollywood is doing to depict Natives. I also heard about the charging of sweats in Cali. I've lived in Cali for many years, I have seen many powwows there, even cheezy ones where people dress up like Natives and hold teachings. I mean white people really fall for this stuff! It's funny! Natives who also pursue careers in Hollywood are the worst, I am so ashamed of them. Last year I took the liberty to take pictures of all the fake "Indians" who dance at these powwows, most of them I've seen on my t.v. They are also the same ones who hold fake ceremonies and burn sage.......it's ridiculously funny! We call them "Circle of Friends". They are the Hollywood Indians who hang out together and you can tell who they are. I did. I don't get chanced to watch Indian flicks, I'm too addicted to Law and Order to care about Natives fooling themselves and I won't be a supporter to Natives who disgrace themselves on television.