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  • #31
    Originally posted by LISA IRONMAKER View Post
    OMG!! WTF!! I mean what was this person thinkn or were they even thinkn?? you don't do that especially at a pow-wow....that's like totally messed up BIG TIME!!
    Yeah, I don't think that they really were thinking at all. It really caused a major uprising in many people.

    Originally posted by Ninja View Post
    Oh no they didn't! I'm traumatized and I wasn't there. Where was this Powwow/wake? On a more serious side, sounds like everyone did what they needed to do in that unexpected situation. I would have packed my belongings and went home. In my opinion, there is a difference between a powwow and a laying of someones ashes. The two need to be kept seperate. I have witnessed many things being brought into the powwow arena, some I agree with and some questionable, but this one crossed my line. I'm without words on this disstressing event. Maybe the committe will offer a public statement, an apology, an explanation for the incident.
    Ninja--it and it was not done while any of the pow wow was going on. None of the staff or anyone knew anything about it. There was a public apology of types when one of the persons stood up and said "there was something done here yesterday that no one knew about. As soon as it was brought to people's attention, it was taken care of right away." They went on a little more, but that was the basics. The person who did this did it totally in silence with no one around and only mentioned it to the MC after they had already done that. So it really had nothing to do with anyone from the pow wow, it was one individual who, I guess, wasn't thinking. All the people, as far as I know, were on dinner break. And I do agree with you that the two are totally different things. Everyone there did the best that they could. Many of us were camping out and some came a very long way to get there. But there were many who didn't dance 'cause of it. See no one knows who it was who even did it, we just know that a man went up to the MC and told him what they had done and then they left or walked away. It's not someone who is regularly involved with the pow wow to begin with, not as far as I know. So it was really only one person.

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    • #32
      shut er down, thats a wrap!!! if that was in my neck of the woods. Also, there would be ceremonies up the yin yang because of that.
      Yes I have been to powwows where people have past on, either at the drum when singing, or near or on the dance floor.
      After that though, the powwow was pretty much shut down, somehwhat. They just took the points that the dancers accumilated up till then, and that was that. they did a memorial song for the family when they found out the bad news, and powwow was over.
      Probably what would happen if that happened here. People would freak the &*^%$ out if that happened.
      [SIGPIC]

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Dakota Sandz View Post
        shut er down, thats a wrap!!! if that was in my neck of the woods. Also, there would be ceremonies up the yin yang because of that.
        Yes I have been to powwows where people have past on, either at the drum when singing, or near or on the dance floor.
        After that though, the powwow was pretty much shut down, somehwhat. They just took the points that the dancers accumilated up till then, and that was that. they did a memorial song for the family when they found out the bad news, and powwow was over.
        Probably what would happen if that happened here. People would freak the &*^%$ out if that happened.
        Well, there weren't many here who were amused either.LOL

        There were lots of ceramonies, but since no one knows who it was or the family or even the person who put them there, they did the best that they could under the circumstances. I don't know why they didn't shut it down, but they didn't, well thinking about it, they probably just let the dancers decide for themselves if they wanted to dance or not. I was one who didn't dance, but there were a few, actually more then I thought that there would be, who did dance. So that's probably why they didn't shut it down. All the dancers, or most all of them knew about it.
        Last edited by timmy tiger; 09-22-2008, 07:41 PM.

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        • #34
          wow.. now I've heard everything...
          I got the chills just thinking about tat happening at a powwow I was attending and yes... I would be one that would be packing up and going.... to take care of myself and others...
          but then I was just thinking about this the other day too... I know that there are gyms here on the rez that hold wakes and then hold powwows at the very same gym later on... I know that they are taking care of and all that but I just had to stop and think... "hmm"...
          anyway.. I still got the chills.. lol..
          just want to add my prayers to the ceromonies done and to the misguided folks that did this too..
          db

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          • #35
            Where was this dance?

            I could care less about "blasting" them or whatever...would just like to know so as to avoid it in the future...you guys brought it up so where was it?
            I think everyone on this rez is addicted to Harry Potter...lol...

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            • #36
              I've never heard of anything like this happening before.

              You don't know who did this, whether they were a spectator, New Ager, NDN, non-NDN, etc., but it is obvious that they were lacking in the knowledge of the protocol associated with the circle, such as asking the AD's permission if in doubt of the acceptability of a practice.

              There will be other cases, I'm sure, whether other "issues" will come up at a powwow (not so disturbing as this perhaps), where differences of perception of acceptable/unacceptable may come into play, and some may be on the basis of tribal taboos, etc. It was already mentioned about carrying children into the circle being a taboo to Ojibwe tradition. I remember another discussion on here about using owl feathers in one's regalia and how some might find that disturbing.

              When you have people from different tribes and traditions, spectators, etc., coming together it pays to have an AD and staff that are on the ball and ready to handle such things when they take place.

              Sounds like the folks at this powwow did the best they could under the circumstances to make things right.

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              • #37
                It's not really about blasting anyone, there's no one to blast except for the actual person who did the deed and since no one seems to know who it is, that's all I can say on that. And I didn't bring it up, I only know from talking to those who took care of it what was done and how it was done and taken care of so that people know and understand that it was totally jumped on immediately and taken care of the best that anyone could have and would have been able to do.

                Yeah, it sure won't happen there again. Nope the person never asked. All I know is that no one knew him or who it was. The MC was the only one that the person contacted and that was after the fact and the MC didn't know who the person was either as far as I know. We were all thinking that it was a spectator who did this during the dinner break, but again we are not 100% sure on that.

                It was really freaky when I found out, I got chills all the way down and then debated on what to do. So I talked to an Elder and then called my Uncle and both of them told me the same thing and so I didn't dance that day. I had to come home after the day was over and take care of all my stuff in the right way as well.

                But it was a good event all in all with the exception of this one situation and that was not a good thing at all, but was taken care of right away.

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                • #38
                  nobody is saying. just have to listen for it on the "indian grapevine" as they say....

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I have a Theory...
                    How many watched the Olympics this year???
                    Well when I first read of this "incident" the first thing I thought of was Misty May-Treanor....
                    After she won the gold medal in Volleyball, she sprinkled some ashes of her dead mother on the sand! Apparently she also did this in 2004 after they won that gold medal...

                    Ok
                    This is pure speculation, but I can sure picture someone sitting at home and watching that!
                    Also I can picture they had read in the local papers a Powwow was to be held in their local area
                    Hmmmm
                    They think, what would be a cool thing than to sprinkle the ashes of my loved one in such a place
                    Sure sounds like a monkey see monkey do...

                    Just a Theory....
                    ᎠᏂᎩᏚᏩᎩ - Anigiduwagi
                    Till I Die!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      It sounds like an interesting sociological experiment...lets sprinkle some ashes and tell everyone about it in a round about way and see what happens!!

                      Two things: 1. It's just a pow wow and 2. It's just ashes!! Ashes from a dead body are an inanimate object which have no power until someone wants to put that fear out there, because they don't know what else to think or do with the information. I can completely understand WHY someone may have done this, probably because the person who died LOVED to dance or sing or both and wanted part of their cremains to be placed in the area that they LOVED. True, it may not be the usual thing that Native Americans would do with a dead body, because we carry our thoughts of those who have passed on in our hearts and minds and in the dances and songs and not generally in "objects" as such, but it's not a completely unheard of practice to sprinkle ashes somewhere.

                      And I say the It's Just a Pow Wow with the utmost respect for traditions, but it's really just an intertribal gathering of singing and dancing, where the true spirit of family and friends and tradition can be felt, so where better to WANT to have some ashes sprinkled?
                      It's not like there aren't other DEAD things in the arena anyway, what with all the feathers from DEAD birds, the leather from DEAD deer, elk, cow, the bones and teeth and shells of other once living animals, who are we to discount them as any less important than that of a human?
                      I say it's over and done with, for all we know, it could happen at every pow wow and no one would even know any better...next time you're dancing an you see those cigarette ashes, better think twice, LOL!!


                      Although-The whole situation does beg the question...what next? An ashes sprinkling song???? An Ashes pick up song???? A separate arbor section just for anyone who wants to bring ashes of their loved ones as a sort of tribute area? A special and giveaway of the persons ashes in little pouches? The possiblities are endless.
                      Last edited by skybird5; 09-23-2008, 01:52 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by skybird5 View Post
                        It sounds like an interesting sociological experiment...lets sprinkle some ashes and tell everyone about it in a round about way and see what happens!!

                        Two things: 1. It's just a pow wow and 2. It's just ashes!! Ashes from a dead body are an inanimate object which have no power until someone wants to put that fear out there, because they don't know what else to think or do with the information. I can completely understand WHY someone may have done this, probably because the person who died LOVED to dance or sing or both and wanted part of their cremains to be placed in the area that they LOVED. True, it may not be the usual thing that Native Americans would do with a dead body, because we carry our thoughts of those who have passed on in our hearts and minds and in the dances and songs and not generally in "objects" as such, but it's not a completely unheard of practice to sprinkle ashes somewhere.

                        And I say the It's Just a Pow Wow with the utmost respect for traditions, but it's really just an intertribal gathering of singing and dancing, where the true spirit of family and friends and tradition can be felt, so where better to WANT to have some ashes sprinkled?
                        It's not like there aren't other DEAD things in the arena anyway, what with all the feathers from DEAD birds, the leather from DEAD deer, elk, cow, the bones and teeth and shells of other once living animals, who are we to discount them as any less important than that of a human?
                        I say it's over and done with, for all we know, it could happen at every pow wow and no one would even know any better...next time you're dancing an you see those cigarette ashes, better think twice, LOL!!


                        Although-The whole situation does beg the question...what next? An ashes sprinkling song???? An Ashes pick up song???? A separate arbor section just for anyone who wants to bring ashes of their loved ones as a sort of tribute area? A special and giveaway of the persons ashes in little pouches? The possiblities are endless.
                        Before everyone has a cow and fires up the witch hunt torches...

                        I think there is truth to some of what Skybird is saying. Some of us know that at certain pws, some "traditions" are questionable in their origin. (I DON"T want to get specific) As as powwow has evolved and continues to evolve among our many different tribes, some of these "traditions" vary and evolve also...... So this brings us all back to the topic of which tribe is doing it in the "right" way..... And we all know it isn't Navajos <jks>

                        And as I said before, Navajos have strong taboos on death, so I don't think we would approve of ashes being sprinkled the arena.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Josiah View Post
                          I have a Theory...
                          How many watched the Olympics this year???
                          Well when I first read of this "incident" the first thing I thought of was Misty May-Treanor....
                          After she won the gold medal in Volleyball, she sprinkled some ashes of her dead mother on the sand! Apparently she also did this in 2004 after they won that gold medal...

                          Ok
                          This is pure speculation, but I can sure picture someone sitting at home and watching that!
                          Also I can picture they had read in the local papers a Powwow was to be held in their local area
                          Hmmmm
                          They think, what would be a cool thing than to sprinkle the ashes of my loved one in such a place
                          Sure sounds like a monkey see monkey do...

                          Just a Theory....
                          WOW! I'm surprised China let her bring her mother's ashes into thier country.... And very interesting speculation.... I definetly can see this happening...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I think people would be surprised about how many times they may have danced in arenas where a loved ones ashes have been spread. I've heard of this being done before, but it was done when no one was around and not during pow-wow time. It was done with prayers and tears.

                            Once it rains, all should be washed away....
                            sigpic

                            Contest Coordinator & Calendar Admin
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                            • #44
                              I also saw Misty May sprinkle her mom's ashes in China AND she did that at Athens too. Why wouldn't the country let her bring them in, they aren't DRUGS or anything illegal.

                              Maybe some people are a bit confused about what constitutes "ashes", it's actually pulvarized bone fragments that are left after the body is cremated. It's not really ashes at all. And a very small amount can be placed in any type of container or locket or vial and transported without any one else's knowledge. Heck, some dancer could be wearing parts of their relative in a locket around their neck and other participants would never know it.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by skybird5 View Post
                                I also saw Misty May sprinkle her mom's ashes in China AND she did that at Athens too. Why wouldn't the country let her bring them in, they aren't DRUGS or anything illegal.

                                Maybe some people are a bit confused about what constitutes "ashes", it's actually pulvarized bone fragments that are left after the body is cremated. It's not really ashes at all. And a very small amount can be placed in any type of container or locket or vial and transported without any one else's knowledge. Heck, some dancer could be wearing parts of their relative in a locket around their neck and other participants would never know it.

                                I was just thinking China was so strict about who goes in and out, that maybe they might not like someone bring in ashes... I know what cremated remains are.....

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