Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Corpses in the Circle

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    You used the word "just and "respect" in the same sentence. The words "just a powwow or ashes" minimize or discounts the event and then you say "utmost respect" and expect me to believe your ideas. You speak of death of objects like you have little respect for it. Are you really that desensitized? Yes, sprinkling of ashes has been done many times in many places everyday and sometimes at powwow grounds. The difference is CHOICE. If this observance took place while I was at dinner break and I was told after the fact, yes, I'm troubled by it! In this particular situation, we are told the committee and staff had little control over what one person planned on doing and I am saddened for all involved.
    I am intrigued by your question "what next" hummmm I hope it doesn't go that far.

    Comment


    • #47
      Now the lady who started this thread simply asked for opinions and what other's thought.

      I don't agree with Skybird5 in may ways, but they are giving their opinion here.

      It is not a minimal thing really, it is over and done with and was taking care of in a good way as soon as anyone found out about it.

      But it was very disrespectful to all participants of the powwow due to the fact that it was an intertribal and there were many different Tribes there and many of them do have beliefs of not "Dancing on the dead" as it had been said to me and other's have beliefs of staying away from that as well. So it is not minimal really and I don't think that we should take it that way. But it is over with and was taken care of. And no one associated with the pow wow or involved in any copacity knew about it until after the fact and that was very disrespectful to all involved.

      So to discuss it and find out what other's would do or how they would feel is a good thing, to debate and judge is not going to help any of us out, really. Just my opinion here on this one too.

      Um the comment about someone wearing the ashes of a relative in the circle really is mute here because they didn't put the urn there with the ashes, they dumped the ashes out on the ground in the center of the arena. And what a person wears on or with their regalia is totally their business and if it's in a lockit--then it's sealed and not likely to blow on anyone. That's covered again by the statement on the other page "If you don't know about it would it bother you?"
      Last edited by timmy tiger; 09-23-2008, 04:03 PM.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by timmy tiger View Post
        "If you don't know about it would it bother you?"
        Yes it probably would, and probably a lot of people when they start having dreams about this person, or wonder why they are getting sick.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Kakeeya View Post
          Yes it probably would, and probably a lot of people when they start having dreams about this person, or wonder why they are getting sick.
          I have to agree with you on this one. I had to get "cleaned off" when I got home because Saturday night I had some vicious, vivid dreams about death and body parts. It was terrible. At the time, I didn't think it bothered me that much but it did.
          I also hold certain beliefs that although dead, there is still a spirit associated with "remains"......be those of a body or ashes or bone fragments. Those spirits need time to get where they are going. In our tribe, there is certain protocal to make sure this happens. I think, if it didn't feel right, it probably wasn't. I did what I had to for me and my family in the way I know how.
          Call me "superstitious", "dramatic", or whatever you want but it wasn't something that I could just shrug off like, "oh, just ashes."

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by kiyaanii mom View Post
            Coming from a tribe that has strong taboos on being around the dead (and I would assume their ashes), I'm sure this would definitely bother the people attending a powwow if it happen in this area....

            It was very rude and disrespectful to the host, for the person who did this to not make this request before taking action!!! And I feel that would be the constant response no matter where this happen.

            Powwow is not a tradition of our tribe, although many of our people have adopted it's ways.

            I have to agree. If someone from my mom's tribe were there, this would have a drastic impact on their spiritual well being, as probably with a few other tribes.

            Comment


            • #51
              2 Cents

              This has provoked some good thoughts eh?

              Mine are this:
              1. Total disrespect. It's probably good no one knows who did this 'cause they would've gotten a serious what for then the real discussions would have started.
              2. Where was the AD? I'm sorry but even at the dinner break the AD or somebody should be around. I know that sometimes the committee asks the AD to do way too many things, but preventing this kind of thing is one of the primary responsibilities.
              3. I would at least consider moving the arena and kinda marking off that spot for a year or two.
              4. As for dealing with multiple traditions (which should be a forum in and of itself) things like this you kinda have to go with how many people in your area have serious taboos about this- if it is most folks then don't do it, if it is one or two you might want to talk it out some more and see why they have an objection. In this case maybe closing down the arena might have been in order, or maybe they handled it right on- just depends.

              Comment


              • #52
                I wouldn't go dance on someone's grave............and sure wouldn't want to dance on someone's ashes.
                It's just not right.
                Besides that........you'd carry those ashes home on your moc's.....your leggings.......you clothes.
                I just don't think that's right.
                There should be respect for those that have gone on........and for those still here.
                Last edited by NancyJo; 09-23-2008, 07:30 PM. Reason: adding a thought

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ndneyez View Post
                  I have to agree with you on this one. I had to get "cleaned off" when I got home because Saturday night I had some vicious, vivid dreams about death and body parts. It was terrible. At the time, I didn't think it bothered me that much but it did.
                  I also hold certain beliefs that although dead, there is still a spirit associated with "remains"......be those of a body or ashes or bone fragments. Those spirits need time to get where they are going. In our tribe, there is certain protocal to make sure this happens. I think, if it didn't feel right, it probably wasn't. I did what I had to for me and my family in the way I know how.
                  Call me "superstitious", "dramatic", or whatever you want but it wasn't something that I could just shrug off like, "oh, just ashes."
                  I totally agree with u on this one... and I say the same thing as far as u say.. call me superstitious or whatever.. I've seen some stuff in that circle that is pretty tough to explain and bringing something like this into the circle can and does make people sick and spiritually unbalanced and I go back to my last statement as far as adding my prayers to those involved and am thankful that it was taken care of as best as possible..
                  db

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Kakeeya View Post
                    Yes it probably would, and probably a lot of people when they start having dreams about this person, or wonder why they are getting sick.
                    Well, now that was a quote from someone else from a previous page here.

                    Now you said "Probably", well I can tell you for sure that I would have effects from it for a fact. I didn't know about the ashes until after the pow wow sat night and long before I ever found out about them I told someone that I was feeling funny and I didn't know why. It was the weirdst thing for me. And that wasn't the first time it happened to me (no I've never been anywhere where someone did anything like that before--it was different, but similar)--again I hadn't been told--yet and I knew something was not right. So I can say first hand that it would effect me for sure, but that doesn't mean that it would everyone, many yes, but not everyone. And the one person who said "Choice" is right, no one was asked or given the choice until after it was done. And even though I had effects before I ever knew about it, I still say that they did the best that they could and I don't hold any grudges against anyone there.

                    I did not have dreams, but I did have effects and spoke of not feeling right long before I found out about what had actually happen.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I was there and I didn't know anything about it until I saw this thread, because I left Saturday night and did not return on Sunday.

                      These are the remains of a human being and I believe strongly that people should be treated with respect after death, as in life.

                      I hope I didn't step on him.
                      Last edited by neling4; 09-24-2008, 12:30 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Neling I know that you did not step on him that's for sure 'cause you stayed to the outside of the arena the whole time that we danced, so that is not a worry there.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          What a creepy situation! I have a lot of repsect for death, it's obvious to me that the person who did this doesn't. They might've been "honoring" the request of the person who passed, but you can't just go around forcing others to be a part of it, i think it was a selfish act. It just makes me wonder what kind of person would do that? Most of us, as you've read, have beliefs or ways about handling these things and then all of a sudden someone wonders into a powwow and leaves someones remains there??? WTF?!??! Where I come from, we don't even burn bodies, imagine how we would've had to deal with that!
                          I just don't understand people and the reasons they do the things they do....

                          This reminds me of the first DC powwow they had on the National mall back in 2002, it was HOT! like hotter than 10 hells hot!! and people were having a hard time....unfortunately, this guy that came all the way from the northwest had a heart attack and died right there in the dance circle....it was scary! We did what we needed to do (my family) and the powwow committee decided to just block off that area where he fell and continued on with the powwow. Then we hear another person got taken away in the ambulance & passed away....there were a lot of weird things happening and it was blamed on the heat/temperature.
                          SHOOT...I even passed out right after contest, standing in line to get judged. It was crazy!!
                          *BE EASY*

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by timmy tiger View Post
                            Now you said "Probably", well I can tell you for sure that I would have effects from it for a fact.
                            Okay so I said "probably" yeah I said that and I said that because some people would get bothered and some people wouldn't, not everyone will have dreams or get sick or have strong reactions from being around human remains, ashes. Some people think of it as just ashes, and thats all a persons remains are to them, just ashes. I'm not one of those people.

                            I also am aware that the person that did this horrible thing at the powwow didn't consult with anyone and did it on their own, but after the committee found out then there should have been blessings for everyone up the ying yang as someone said. I'm not going to post on this anymore and am going to let it go. Arguing about people's remains is not something that I care to be a part of, just trying to let my opinion be out there.
                            Last edited by Kakeeya; 09-24-2008, 03:29 PM. Reason: said too much on this subject

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              okay i am 99% sure i i know where this powwow is.

                              I've been there a few times and honestly never felt right there. Always creepy vibes goin on but maybe thats just me.

                              Im seriously not feeling well just reading this. I've always been taught certain things about death and handling death. Shoot, we have certain "protocol" for the deceased persons things and belongings after they pass on. Everything has a piece of that persons spirit especially their ashes. Cmon now that is the person!!!

                              I stopped going to this powwow for my own reasons after last year.
                              And in my own opinion here im not too confident on the "ceremonies" that went on to take care of this deceased person.
                              but maybe they know how the 'mohicans' did it?? *hint hint*

                              sure you want your loved one to be put to rest somewhere they loved to be but cmon have a little respect for others and find a better way to do this.
                              ~*~¤(¯`·._» >The Prettiest People do the Ugliest things <«_.·´¯)¤ ~*~

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Honestly here, I'm not arguing with anyone, just stating my opinions here as well.

                                There were many ceramony's going on and being taken care of.

                                And if you don't feel comfortable, then sure don't go, there is no problem with that at all.

                                But to blame a whole event for one persons dis-respect is where I do have a problem with and I'm still not arguing, just stating the way that I see it as well.

                                Comment

                                Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

                                Related Topics

                                Collapse

                                • justventing
                                  Calling for a boycott
                                  by justventing
                                  My life is powwowing. On occasion I participate in powwows in the Lumbee/Haliwa area. Upon arrival to the Richmond, VA powwow they are only letting select people to the back. When I asked Barry he stated dancers were bringing their whole familys and not paying. They were so worried non participants...
                                  11-20-2008, 11:56 PM
                                • GeronimoRubio
                                  Disrespecting our people On Live TV
                                  by GeronimoRubio
                                  Go here and watch the video entitled "Thanks, But No Thanksgiving?"

                                  Red Eye w/ Greg Gutfeld - FOXNews.com

                                  RED EYE W/ GREG GUTFELD last night had this live on National TV. As he was talking about a school Administrators in seattle Washington were being told that...
                                  11-21-2007, 12:56 AM
                                • Apache_Fancy_Shawl
                                  chamber's farm
                                  by Apache_Fancy_Shawl
                                  Hello, was at chamber's farm last night for a so called pow-wow.
                                  In my opinion, they needed to call it a white man trying to have a Native American gathering. sevral of the dancers were walking across the circle with food and drinks, just so they didn't have to go around the circle. they had people...
                                  04-02-2006, 08:42 PM
                                • DeusExMachina
                                  "Bread and Cheese Fight" at Six Nations
                                  by DeusExMachina
                                  Found this interesting article from the Mohawk Nation.

                                  MNN Mohawk Nation News
                                  “BREAD AND CHEESE FIGHT” VICTORIA DAY AT SIX NATIONS - WHO WAS BEING SUCKER PUNCHED? ONTARIO DOES NOT WANT TO RECOGNIZE SIX NATIONS OR ANY ABORIGINAL TITLE

                                  Mohawk Nation News -- May...
                                  05-26-2006, 12:28 AM
                                • LoneWolfBunn
                                  Please ask them to announce this at the next PowWow you go to
                                  by LoneWolfBunn
                                  I can easily be called a conspiracy theorist but I would happily accept facts that prove my theories wrong because if I am right our children and our grandchildren are facing some serious health issues in the future. And because of the seriousness of it I wouldn't say this unless I was certain it were...
                                  01-25-2006, 10:40 PM

                                Trending

                                Collapse

                                There are no results that meet this criteria.

                                Sidebar Ad

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X