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  • Pheji Wanbli
    replied
    Wow

    dances with the dead... yea we herd through ndn vine..i know the ad, and mc. prob took care of it..they should have did a water cermonie and washed um away..

    Leave a comment:


  • Joe's Dad
    replied
    Originally posted by 50cal View Post
    ok.......I am curious now, after reading thru all this.....I don't go to powwows like this, I even quit going to Indio/29 Palms because someone had passed away in the arena.....(that was some years back)...but, what I want to know (if you want to PM me on this) is where this powwow is so I don't hurt myself or others that come with me (In a spiritual sense) and I can avoid it........it's bad enough I got other things on my mind, I don't need to add another.....
    I was at that powwow.

    Leave a comment:


  • Luzenza
    replied
    Originally posted by 50cal View Post
    ok.......I am curious now, after reading thru all this.....I don't go to powwows like this, I even quit going to Indio/29 Palms because someone had passed away in the arena.....(that was some years back)...but, what I want to know (if you want to PM me on this) is where this powwow is so I don't hurt myself or others that come with me (In a spiritual sense) and I can avoid it........it's bad enough I got other things on my mind, I don't need to add another.....
    I agree

    Leave a comment:


  • 50cal
    replied
    ok.......I am curious now, after reading thru all this.....I don't go to powwows like this, I even quit going to Indio/29 Palms because someone had passed away in the arena.....(that was some years back)...but, what I want to know (if you want to PM me on this) is where this powwow is so I don't hurt myself or others that come with me (In a spiritual sense) and I can avoid it........it's bad enough I got other things on my mind, I don't need to add another.....

    Leave a comment:


  • timmy tiger
    replied
    Originally posted by OneidaLuv77 View Post
    Why would you barry them than remove them......?? Bad enough you buried them in the middle of the arena... but to dig the ashes up and remove again....WTF?? Dont sound to ceremonial...... man NAGPRA would have a field day.
    I'm sorry but that was two different things. The person that put them there was not a part of the pow wow and no one knew, then the campgrounds people came in and took them out. I don't honestly think that (but then I really don't know that one for sure either) the person who did this was even still there at the time. This was not a ceramony at all as far as I have been told by the ones who took care of it.

    As far as the committee, I have no clue who they are and I've never seen them, that I know of.LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • OneidaLuv77
    replied
    Also like to add....

    Why would you barry them than remove them......?? Bad enough you buried them in the middle of the arena... but to dig the ashes up and remove again....WTF?? Dont sound to ceremonial...... man NAGPRA would have a field day.

    Leave a comment:


  • OneidaLuv77
    replied
    I agree with NDNEYES

    Ok I went to this PW too! And its far too frequented with Hobbiests......geezuz... You dont hear of these things where there are more Native people in the circle. SORRY just had to put that out there. Im glad NDN EYEs put this on here, cause I NEVER heard of throwin ashes in the dance circle. WE were all shocked, confused, scared, upset, respectable....etc... I respect people who have passed on and dont have the nerve to dance on them. Dancing for them is different NOT on them. Theres a time and place for everything, this PW was not one of them.....well any pw for that matter. AND yeah when you put on a PW all liability is on the committee I dont care what anyone says. This place does have wierd vibes as Shan-lyn was saying. Cause even the spectators and the non-native vendors were rude. Most MCs at PWs like this announce the ettiquette for non-native people, and that did not happen. I dont like someone sayin " hey you NDN can I take a picture of you. " I am not a damn monkey...... Anyway take it or leave it thats my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nezbah
    replied
    TT, Personally, I respect that you didn't name names or all that AND that you respected your Elders whom have told you not to do so.

    Death is a part of life, we have no control of when its going to happen or where its going to happen. Since no one really knew whom it was or who put the ashes out there, I see that the committee or AD did what they had to do to 'take care of it' in the ways that they know how to do.

    Even Buckskin Pantyhose even posted about the DC powwow whom an elder passed on in the arena but people still go to this powwow. I have seen elder dancers pass on in an arena, including a very popular highly publicized powwow arena in California but still people go there. Like someone else said there are powwows that are held in gyms that funerals or wakes have been held in too. Besides, like I said in my previous post, this entire earth is full of 1000's of years of bone or ash of ALL living things that passed on, you have no idea whom or what you are walking on. Me, myself, and my family have been 'taken care of' in our ways that it won't bother us. But that is my own personal thing not everyone else's.

    Point is these are INTER-TRIBAL Powwows with many many many different tribes each with their own beliefs and different ways to deal with death or situations like these. There is no set one specific protocal on how to deal with these situations. I can't tell someone their views or opinions are crazy or not the right way because I am not part of their tribe. I only believe in our ways, the Navajo way, in which how we deal with death. Not even our ways even within our own tribe has one set protocal, its up to the family and the elders within that family or medicine man that dictates what happens. Personally, I stick with my own traditional ways and get things taken care of on my personal time, I don't bring it upon others, and I certainly don't tell others how to do things. There are many different ways that we all deal with things, nothing is the RIGHT way.

    There are people who are super traditional, some are dedicated to the church, and many other types of beliefs that each tribe has but we can't bicker amongst eachother on how to deal with these situations. If the AD and the committee has 'taken care' of things, then I believe they have. You can most certainly tell if it has been done. But not everyone has these insights or beliefs, I have grown to respect and accept that.

    But I respect everyone's views and how different tribes or families deal with things. I also teach my son to respect anothers opinions or views, there is no one right way. But he does listen and respect his elders, like I do.

    Anyways, I said what I had to say........

    Leave a comment:


  • timmy tiger
    replied
    Originally posted by ndneyez View Post
    This may be the problem here. I think you're coming off argumentative to some people (some, not all) because YOU have faith in what was done to "fix" the problem. YOU know what was done. YOU know who did what. YOU have had a chance to converse with those individuals. YOU believe that what they did "took care of the problem." If you put yourself in my shoes and the rest of the people who have posted you would understand where they are coming from.
    I personally don't know who did what to take care of it. Even from your posts, I know a different occurance of the events that took place. Do you really think anybody wants to put their families well-being in the hands of a stranger when it comes to a situation like this? We (the dancers) weren't even told what had been done to remedy the problem. We weren't told what "ceremony" was held. We don't know who performed this "ceremony." It's just too bizaare a situation to leave in the hands of a stranger.
    Also, it's a sad truth but EVERYTHING that happens at a pow-wow rests on the shoulders of the committee. I've served on my pow-wow committee for 4 years. The committee is the body that oversees all "goings-on" of a pow-wow. Their fault or not......everybody will blame them. For example, 2 teen girls who have been enemies for years decide to exchange "unpleasantries" in the G.E. line. Whose face did the father of the teen get into for allowing that to happen??? Us, the pow-wow committee. It is sad to say but my first thought was, "this is a good way to ensure people won't come back to this pow-wow."
    It is nice to try and defend those involved but it is the responsibility they took on when they decided to have the pow-wow.
    Also, I posted this thread to hear ALL thoughts. Some I agree with, some I don't. It is nice to hear what everybody has to say. And I really don't think anybody has "bashed" anybody SO FAR......lol
    That is exactly what I'm trying to do is insure people that it was done in a good way without putting names out on the net as I was told not to do. Being there and talking to the people and knowing them for years is very different then to not know anything. If you want to know just PM me and ask, I would tell you. And I will tell you, gladly if that would make you feel better since you were there too. But then again, other's have talked about if it happened by them they know who woud take care of it and then many go on, well it's the same thing here, I do know and many don't. That is very unfortunate and since you don't know me why would you take just my word for it, I am totally understanding that, but no different then someone else mentioning dealing with "their" medicine people. And there was an announcement made by one man who also took care of some when he danced and sang infront of the people. Many may not have been there when that happened, but again I was and saw what was being done at that time and it was before the grand entry on Sunday.

    And I do have extreme and no question without a doubt faith in the people who took care of it, but that is--also due to the fact that I have known many of them for many years (outside of just this event as well) and know how they are personally and what they live and do on a regular basis.

    I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I am trying to reassure people from seeing it with my own eyes and actually talking to the people who did most of it that it was honestly and sincerely taken care of in a good way.
    Last edited by timmy tiger; 09-24-2008, 05:26 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ndneyez
    replied
    No offense BUT.....

    Originally posted by timmy tiger View Post
    There were many ceramony's going on and being taken care of.
    This may be the problem here. I think you're coming off argumentative to some people (some, not all) because YOU have faith in what was done to "fix" the problem. YOU know what was done. YOU know who did what. YOU have had a chance to converse with those individuals. YOU believe that what they did "took care of the problem." If you put yourself in my shoes and the rest of the people who have posted you would understand where they are coming from.
    I personally don't know who did what to take care of it. Even from your posts, I know a different occurance of the events that took place. Do you really think anybody wants to put their families well-being in the hands of a stranger when it comes to a situation like this? We (the dancers) weren't even told what had been done to remedy the problem. We weren't told what "ceremony" was held. We don't know who performed this "ceremony." It's just too bizaare a situation to leave in the hands of a stranger.
    Also, it's a sad truth but EVERYTHING that happens at a pow-wow rests on the shoulders of the committee. I've served on my pow-wow committee for 4 years. The committee is the body that oversees all "goings-on" of a pow-wow. Their fault or not......everybody will blame them. For example, 2 teen girls who have been enemies for years decide to exchange "unpleasantries" in the G.E. line. Whose face did the father of the teen get into for allowing that to happen??? Us, the pow-wow committee. It is sad to say but my first thought was, "this is a good way to ensure people won't come back to this pow-wow."
    It is nice to try and defend those involved but it is the responsibility they took on when they decided to have the pow-wow.
    Also, I posted this thread to hear ALL thoughts. Some I agree with, some I don't. It is nice to hear what everybody has to say. And I really don't think anybody has "bashed" anybody SO FAR......lol

    Leave a comment:


  • timmy tiger
    replied
    Honestly here, I'm not arguing with anyone, just stating my opinions here as well.

    There were many ceramony's going on and being taken care of.

    And if you don't feel comfortable, then sure don't go, there is no problem with that at all.

    But to blame a whole event for one persons dis-respect is where I do have a problem with and I'm still not arguing, just stating the way that I see it as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • ~*~ShanLyn~*~
    replied
    okay i am 99% sure i i know where this powwow is.

    I've been there a few times and honestly never felt right there. Always creepy vibes goin on but maybe thats just me.

    Im seriously not feeling well just reading this. I've always been taught certain things about death and handling death. Shoot, we have certain "protocol" for the deceased persons things and belongings after they pass on. Everything has a piece of that persons spirit especially their ashes. Cmon now that is the person!!!

    I stopped going to this powwow for my own reasons after last year.
    And in my own opinion here im not too confident on the "ceremonies" that went on to take care of this deceased person.
    but maybe they know how the 'mohicans' did it?? *hint hint*

    sure you want your loved one to be put to rest somewhere they loved to be but cmon have a little respect for others and find a better way to do this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kakeeya
    replied
    Originally posted by timmy tiger View Post
    Now you said "Probably", well I can tell you for sure that I would have effects from it for a fact.
    Okay so I said "probably" yeah I said that and I said that because some people would get bothered and some people wouldn't, not everyone will have dreams or get sick or have strong reactions from being around human remains, ashes. Some people think of it as just ashes, and thats all a persons remains are to them, just ashes. I'm not one of those people.

    I also am aware that the person that did this horrible thing at the powwow didn't consult with anyone and did it on their own, but after the committee found out then there should have been blessings for everyone up the ying yang as someone said. I'm not going to post on this anymore and am going to let it go. Arguing about people's remains is not something that I care to be a part of, just trying to let my opinion be out there.
    Last edited by Kakeeya; 09-24-2008, 03:29 PM. Reason: said too much on this subject

    Leave a comment:


  • buckskin pantyhose
    replied
    What a creepy situation! I have a lot of repsect for death, it's obvious to me that the person who did this doesn't. They might've been "honoring" the request of the person who passed, but you can't just go around forcing others to be a part of it, i think it was a selfish act. It just makes me wonder what kind of person would do that? Most of us, as you've read, have beliefs or ways about handling these things and then all of a sudden someone wonders into a powwow and leaves someones remains there??? WTF?!??! Where I come from, we don't even burn bodies, imagine how we would've had to deal with that!
    I just don't understand people and the reasons they do the things they do....

    This reminds me of the first DC powwow they had on the National mall back in 2002, it was HOT! like hotter than 10 hells hot!! and people were having a hard time....unfortunately, this guy that came all the way from the northwest had a heart attack and died right there in the dance circle....it was scary! We did what we needed to do (my family) and the powwow committee decided to just block off that area where he fell and continued on with the powwow. Then we hear another person got taken away in the ambulance & passed away....there were a lot of weird things happening and it was blamed on the heat/temperature.
    SHOOT...I even passed out right after contest, standing in line to get judged. It was crazy!!

    Leave a comment:


  • timmy tiger
    replied
    Neling I know that you did not step on him that's for sure 'cause you stayed to the outside of the arena the whole time that we danced, so that is not a worry there.

    Leave a comment:

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