Powwow Point System question..what do you think??

[Wojapi4Me]

Nezbah...no disrespect to you in the world, but I can tell from your posts you're either a young person in general or at least young to the pow wow world.

Some of us remember contesting without numbers and grand entries and spot checks and all of the rules that are ingrained in us today. Those contests were much more fun than today's which makes one feel more like cattle than a dancer...move you in, move you out...move you over here...move you over there...

In answering your first question, I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said not to worry about it and just take numbers. The tabulator's job at a modern pow wow is one I would never take and one I don't envy at all. You guys/ladies are sort of like umpires at a baseball game. Don't make your job harder than it is.

If a guy comes in holding his roach or a lady dances by with her hair all crazy...just take their number and let the dance judges and AD(s) handle it.

Hope I didn't offend as that certainly wasn't and never is the case.

[kiyaanii mom]

LMAOH!! that's a gooter one :D or you may be Tanees bedroom...aye.

Maybe rather than deducting points from GE for those that are "half azzed" dressed. The committee should have those categories contest right after grand entry. Because many of the people you are describing are people who are assuming their contest isn't for another 4-5 hours.

Back to my question. Do you tell dancers on the spot that they are getting deducted for not being fully dressed? Because if you do, then that gives them the opportunity to tell you whether or not they can wear a roach or whatever else their justification may be.

[Nezbah]

Nezbah...no disrespect to you in the world, but I can tell from your posts you're either a young person in general or at least young to the pow wow world.

Some of us remember contesting without numbers and grand entries and spot checks and all of the rules that are ingrained in us today. Those contests were much more fun than today's which makes one feel more like cattle than a dancer...move you in, move you out...move you over here...move you over there...

In answering your first question, I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said not to worry about it and just take numbers. The tabulator's job at a modern pow wow is one I would never take and one I don't envy at all. You guys/ladies are sort of like umpires at a baseball game. Don't make your job harder than it is.

If a guy comes in holding his roach or a lady dances by with her hair all crazy...just take their number and let the dance judges and AD(s) handle it.

Hope I didn't offend as that certainly wasn't and never is the case.

wooooooooo hooooo I was called young...lmao. Nah, been in the powwow world forever. It's just a general question and people are taking it totally out of context. I have seen things done so many different ways but this is not according to the old ways. If it were up to me, everything would be done the old way....:D. But it isn't. I am just helping the committee, is all, because I didn't agree with some of the rules last year, it wasn't really defined. And that's it, there was no dance judge, the committee, puts the tabulator, head judge, and head dance judge in all one position, not the AD. I have also been in the position to being the head judge and having to pretty much run the whole powwow down to the money... Each powwow is different, run different, etc, just come to terms with all that, nothing is going to be the same. Although I wish it was, if you think of it, the headstaff/committee are compromised of many different people with many different views on how things should be run, just have to go with the flow.....do the best you can do....

[kiyaanii mom]

I was just thinking that if the pw has a head dance judge. That person needs to be standing at GE taking the numbers of those dancers who they think are not in full regalia.

If there isn't one. Then I think the committee is the one who should be doing it. As the tabulator you are suppose to be unbias and it is hard to do that if you have to evaluate fully dressed or "half azzed" dressed.... ( I think that should be the new term for it! )

[HolyElk]

First thing- to weed out the wannabes make folks show a tribal card to register- I have seen it done before,

What happens is there is a Indian who can't be enrolled in a Tribe because he doesn't have enough blood? I know of a guy who comes from two different blood lines, but because his parents weren't full blood and barely even 1/2, he couldn't get enrolled in either tribe.

[Nezbah]

Maybe rather than deducting points from GE for those that are "half azzed" dressed. The committee should have those categories contest right after grand entry. Because many of the people you are describing are people who are assuming their contest isn't for another 4-5 hours.

Back to my question. Do you tell dancers on the spot that they are getting deducted for not being fully dressed? Because if you do, then that gives them the opportunity to tell you whether or not they can wear a roach or whatever else their justification may be.

Actually last year, the dancers were told forthright by one of the tabulators, most of them were all guilty...LOL. But in some ways, I didn't really agree with that but then again, that was what the committee wanted. And, that's the exact reason why we were asked to come back again.... Then I thought back to when mah lil one when he was contesting without a roach until he earned it, some powwows just overlooked him because he wasn't dressed 'completely', when he was and then there were some that just judged him on his dancing,etc. I did notice, however, when he did get initiated, etc he has been winning or placing all over, so kinda makes you think..... I hear dancers complaining all the time about not placing because they don't have a full set of beadwork or wearing a roach or headgear, etc. "I could have placed if I had all my beadwork done...yadda yadda".

Then, that's where the scruples came into play, how can we clarify being fully dressed?? Just only trying to be fair.

Folks, this is not a thread to upset anyone or bicker about anything, tell someone they don't know something or too young to know better, etc. You may have no idea where that person came from or whom taught their ways, powwows are done differently everywhere. Contests are about money these days but I believe the committee should clarify their rules more (not just a generalization) or simply just omit them to make things a fair contest. Just lately, I have seen alot of the contest powwows having the 'must be fully dressed at all times' in their printed rules. And, alot of powwows, at least down here, are implementing this.....

Personally, I would rather win a buckle, jacket, trophy, horse, or something........ then go pawn it later down the road...aye...just kidding.

[Nezbah]

I was just thinking that if the pw has a head dance judge. That person needs to be standing at GE taking the numbers of those dancers who they think are not in full regalia.

If there isn't one. Then I think the committee is the one who should be doing it. As the tabulator you are suppose to be unbias and it is hard to do that if you have to evaluate fully dressed or "half azzed" dressed.... ( I think that should be the new term for it! )

Yes, I agree but fortunately head staff pay has a budget...LOL. So some of the roles of the head staff plays double or triple duty, sometimes you have to do what you have to do. The Tabulator position has been composed into Head Judge/Tabulator positions to save $$. Budgeting sometimes plays a key role in who does what.... :D. Personally, I would rather just write down numbers, add, etc but helping out the committee is okay too especially to make a fair unbiased contest powwow....omg is there such a thing?? hahaha

Probably why I don't run a contest powwow just socials.... too much drama and pettiness....:D

[blueskysmom]

pow wow point system

Opening up a whole 'nother can of worms if we start talking enrollment, blood quantum, home reservation. etc. Some people are not Indian enough to be enrolled even though they have Indian blood from different bloodlines and they are really good dancers. I know Indians who are full bloods and dance like boy scouts. When you sponsor a pow wow you have a set of rules and if a particular issue is not addressed in one of the rules then it leaves room for someone to point to the rules and say, "Hey, it doesn't say anything about that in in the rules". So, as far as questioning a particular item of dress or whatever, it is perfectly alright for a dancer to do that if he wants to. The dance arena belongs to the Arena Director. That is why he has been selected because he has that knowledge. There shouldn't be anyone questioning him. If someone does then the onus falls on the committee for selecting someone who is not capable of that responsibility if he makes a mistake.

[Nezbah]

ahhhhh kewl, I think the committee has come up with an agreement here..... thanks for the input and the ideas, comments, and such.

Only in a perfect powwow world.....hahahha, as if.

[superndngyrl]

It seems like its no longer a dance contest but rather a beauty contest. who has all the "right" stuff.
If someone has a crazy outfit but they can tear it up... guess they'll never win.

[kiyaanii mom]

It seems like its no longer a dance contest but rather a beauty contest. who has all the "right" stuff.
If someone has a crazy outfit but they can tear it up... guess they'll never win.

Yup....

[Nezbah]

It seems like its no longer a dance contest but rather a beauty contest. who has all the "right" stuff.
If someone has a crazy outfit but they can tear it up... guess they'll never win.

LMAOH!!!!!!!!! omg, you hit the nail on the head superndngrl.... Sadly, it has become a beauty contest, the newest beadwork, the flashy colors, the hot native guy or gal on their arm, the biggest feather, the largest loin cloth (aye), the biggest crown, etc etc

Ahhhhhhh well, the world is always changing and so is powwow. It's like going into the Navajo Council Chambers with the biggest concho belt to get whatever you need to get......hahahah. Oh the bigger the better....I guess....hahah

[chipster]

What about those dancers that are also singers. All they do is go up & tell the number takers that they are singing for GE & they don't even have to participate in GE. They're not fully dressed. Hmm. It should be the dancer's responsibility to be ready at said GE times. At some contest powwows, a dancer must be in full regalia to receive their prize money. That means all dancers with bustle, roach, crown, or shawl on. Because it was either on the flyer or the MC had made an announcement before winners announced. If not, they won't receive winnings until done so.

[Ivanasnagu]

[QUOTE=blueskysmom;1229701]The dance arena belongs to the Arena Director. That is why he has been selected because he has that knowledge. There shouldn't be anyone questioning him. QUOTE]

Lulululu

[buckskin pantyhose]

i think it's also a matter of personal respect and respect for your dance style and outfit. All of us know how long it takes for us to get ready, how long it takes for you to do your hair, lace your mocs, belt, etc. There really isn't a reason to be 1/2 dressed in G.E. other than unexpected happenings, traffic, work, accidents, blowouts/busted beads, etc.
I really like that a lot of women have day dresses and fierce contest dresses, it gives us a chance to show a variety in our styles and that includes everything right down to the accessories.
I know a lot of women wear less accessories with thier day outfits, they tend to be a little more "traditional" and less flashy. Then the big guns come out during the evening session.
personally i don't like to see gals with their hair 1/2 braided or in a rugged ponytail, but I think that's because of the way I was raised and how I was taught to take care of my things. There's only been a time or two where I went into G.E. without my hair done or with out my fan & i felt so out of place and uncomfortable...

then again participating at contest powwows leaves you at the committees mercy. make you just through hoops for that $1200 first place money! HAHAHA!