A "Fair Dance Contest"

[ballin_n_shawlin]

. I don’t want to see this turn into a sport where someone is named dancer of the year. If this takes place someday, please call it something else other than a powwow. .

too late... we already vote on dancer of hte year lol

[kiyaanii mom]

This topic is so much better when people try to be constructive...

[WhoMe]

Skyb,

1. What constitutes a Knowledgeable dancer? Answer: a dancer with a Phd. What if that person is related to everyone?
Answer: make sure the judge is an orphan.

2 & 3 & 4. How are these questions different? Answer: Because the letter in the words are not the same. Is Random people supposed to be dancers? Answer: No. Legally visually and hearing impaired people with no experience can apply. and visitors are their family or non indians or what? Answer: Or what. I like when committees and tribes use a couple of their own community members to judge-it doesn't work that well if they are the ONLY judges because many communities here in the southwest don't pow wow by tradition so they don't have knowledge of powwow dance categories. But many do. Where do they fall?

5. I think Men should only judge men and women should only judge women, with the current judging system-because its so messed up anyway, it doesn't matter. So to clear up "the messed up system,: what do you think of men that were formerly women as judges?

6.And I've expressed before that using mixed gender judging has its appeal, usually when it's a golden aged person judging teens, juniors and sometimes adults. How about judging other golden aged people?

7 & 8.An odd number of judges should always be used, although you can use an even number and pull a ballot for a tie breaker. ALthough using an odd number for one session then an odd number for another session doesn't always work, because sometimes they add up to even numbers-3 + 3=6, 5+5=10. Really, it depends on the point system that's being used, and the number of dancers in the contest, if there are 20 Jingle dress dancers than you almost have to use 7 or 8 judges. If there are 6 dancers, you can get by with using 3 judges.Obviously you aren't going to use 7 judges for 4 dancers. Why not?

9. I can't see how that would work exactly. If you have 5 judges and they've all ranked the dancers 1st through 3rd place lets say, how would you know which is the highest and lowest score? Answer: A 1st is the highest score and a 3rd place is the lowest score. It would work for drum judging where each judge gives a number of points to each drum, but that's not how dance judging works.

10.I think all the dancers and singers scores should be posted as they're earned, just like in the olympics,professional sports, etc. Why is it a secret what the dancers standings are? Answer: Because Indians are secretive. Want proof? Ask any tribal council how they spend their tribe's money? Each dancer should know as they earn points and how many they are earning. How come?

It's an interesting question, to be sure and I'd love to work with a think tank of people to get a more regulated and fair system in place for ALL pow wows, but I can't see that happening anytime soon. This IS a think tank and powwow people ARE reading this.

*L Just messin' with ya*

[kiyaanii mom]

I've been through the whole not dancin as much as I want cause of kids. then they got a bit older and I used the buddy system, the older ones with the younger ones, it helps when they are old enough to help. But there are still powwows where I feel like i am running with my head cut off. Then this year I have a new baby So sometimes i am busy nursing. i haven't had to worry about spot checks, but one powwow this year I barely made my exhibition, luckily baby finished just in time, and I pretty much ran to the dance circle. I also am busy getting lunch for my mother in law & asisting her because she is handicapped also.

ndnsooner; I have some great tips that help if you need them, I struggled alot balancing everything in the first few years, but I dance a surprising number of dances now. There isn't a guy on this planet who will ever understand everything we are doing, if they did, they'd be amazed that we dance at all!

That is so nice of you to try to help out....but trust me ndnsooner has had A LOT of experience in this. And I bet he could give you pointers.... I'm kidding you NDNsooner!!!

[WhoMe]

That’s it for me. I totally hate powwows. Thanks people you have taken the whole "powwow experience" and have destroyed it with self - love andf money. Yes, dancers really do try to make a living on the powwow circuit, their choice. In my opinion powwows were not intended to support dancers lifestyle. Dancers do try to reach their claim to fame, come one now, be humble people. Please put the spirit of people back in powwows. I don’t want to see this turn into a sport where someone is named dancer of the year. If this takes place someday, please call it something else other than a powwow. Humm. I thought Native People were more modest and did not value putting themselves above other. In my opinion, we should not be out their to be judged like boxers, ballroom dancers etc. It a sad day when we are contemplating how to make powwows more fair and professional, because we are taking the true understanding out of powwows.

OOOOOOOh ZEEEEEEEEke?


*L

[50cal]

DAYUM!!!!....just calls him out.....LOL!!!!....

your response to sb5 was funny.....

[ndnsooner]

That is so nice of you to try to help out....but trust me ndnsooner has had A LOT of experience in this. And I bet he could give you pointers.... I'm kidding you NDNsooner!!!

lol.... you know me and my previous situation all to well. lol

[Zeke]

OOOOOOOh ZEEEEEEEEke?


*L

(For what it is worth, I LOVED your description of this forum as a Think Tank.)

[kiyaanii mom]

lol.... you know me and my previous situation all to well. lol

LOL!!! Helped me prepare for having my own daughter. And as you now know. They are waaaaay different than boys!!!

[badmaninc]

(For what it is worth, I LOVED your description of this forum as a Think Tank.)

Dude, you're getting soft in your old age. Next you're going to be wishing somebody happy birthday. I'm gonna give you some rep.

[SuzzeQ4]

That’s it for me. I totally hate powwows. Thanks people you have taken the whole "powwow experience" and have destroyed it with self - love andf money. Yes, dancers really do try to make a living on the powwow circuit, their choice. In my opinion powwows were not intended to support dancers lifestyle. Dancers do try to reach their claim to fame, come one now, be humble people. Please put the spirit of people back in powwows. I don’t want to see this turn into a sport where someone is named dancer of the year. If this takes place someday, please call it something else other than a powwow. Humm. I thought Native People were more modest and did not value putting themselves above other. In my opinion, we should not be out their to be judged like boxers, ballroom dancers etc. It a sad day when we are contemplating how to make powwows more fair and professional, because we are taking the true understanding out of powwows.
Some dancers need to evaluate why they are dancing. If it is to make a few buck, than don’t complain if you can’t make spot checks or grand entries. Winning money requires that you participate in all aspect of the powwow. Put on your big guy/girl dancer shorts and just dance and except the outcome.
"Big Competition Powwow" are fun to watch I like the diversity of dancers and drums and just leave it at that. But if dancers view it as a dancing challenge to win prize money than maybe they and other could could ask the "Big Powwow sponsers to rename the event to something like the "The Ultimate Dancing Challenge" or the "Wild Wild World of Dancing, charge dancer to register, and then have a “fair system in place.
I have what powwows have become.

If us NDN's were that perfect we'd be born with halos
think about it we always had games, competitive games and games of chance. Also being the chief or this or that was because you rocked those skills, and that doesn't happen without wanting to be the best. I don't dance competition (although I want to give it a try some day) but I don't buy the whole, idea that cometition & the spirit of it as going against who we are, but if ya don't like it there are traditional powwows to go to, rather then whinning about the wrongness of healthy competition

[SuzzeQ4]

LOL!!! Helped me prepare for having my own daughter. And as you now know. They are waaaaay different than boys!!!

Boys are way easier, but dirtier.

[Zeke]

Dude, you're getting soft in your old age. Next you're going to be wishing somebody happy birthday. I'm gonna give you some rep.

Christmas season and all: everybody's a non-combatant.

Besides -- in a prior post on Dancing as Sport -- I compared powwows to NASCAR and nobody bit.

What else can I do?

Here's the quote, if it puts me back in your good graces.

I believe that most powwows -- especially big $$$ contest powwows -- are, in general, no more noteworthy than rodeos: a pan movement creating a culture unto its own.

Sort of like NASCAR.

As for this topic, you can go through all the machinations, but someone is always going to consider your system unfair. Typically, it is someone who feels slighted due to being stripped of some "recognition" they believe wasn't factored in...

[ndnsooner]

LOL!!! Helped me prepare for having my own daughter. And as you now know. They are waaaaay different than boys!!!

LOL... you helped with braiding hair a time or two.... and looked out for the 2 youngest while T-horse was singing.... LOL

[kiyaanii mom]

LOL... you helped with braiding hair a time or two.... and looked out for the 2 youngest while T-horse was singing.... LOL

Those were fun times....I'll always have fond memories when my arthritis acts up........kidding

I'm still amazed you always had the kids on your own and they always all danced!!! SUPER DAD!!!!