The Old Switcheroo

[WhoMe]

I was reading the replies on the fair contest thread and remember some old tricks of dancers. One is "the Ol' Switcheroo."

Say an arena director or head dance judge is counting off dancers to be divided in two groups - one, two, one, two ....

As you see the arena director/head judge coming around you notice that the majority of top competitors are in group one and you're in group two. Then the dancer next to you - out of the blue - comes up to you and shakes your hand and says "good luck" and switches places with you. Now you're in group number one (the hard group) and they have done 'the Ol' Switheroo" and are suddenly in group number two (the easier group) as the arena director/head judge comes and counts you.

Anybody seen this?

If you haven't pay attention and watch.

[ac_miss]

Hmmm.....I'm more of a spectator nowadays, but you definitely got me thinking about it. I haven't seen it, but you can bet I'll be looking for it. *LOL*

[Kakeeya]

I don't think I've ever seen anything as subtle as you mentioned Whome, normally I see shifting going on as the counting is happening or see that one group has more or less dancers than the other group. I think its better if the dancers are just split down the middle and no time given for dancers to switch sides.

[Coyot_In_The_House]

None The Less.....

Your either gonna "cut the cake" or not.....

[superndngyrl]

I'm with kakeeya. Its usually really obvious.

[ndnsooner]

i've seen it done many times. I've seen as a contestant and as an arena director. I've seen dancers walk off with group 2, but bend over asif to tie something and then stand up to stay in the arena with group 1. This sort of thing I've seen more in Oklahoma, since up North they rarely break up dancers into multiple groups.

[kiyaanii mom]

Yup..... Seen it done many times and all over the place....

We need a little kids who will run out there and point their finger at the person screaming, "cheater, cheater, cheater" In that special sing song way kids do......

That is one example of those dancers who are there for the $$.

[badmaninc]

I have seen two brothers and a cousin do it so they can compete against each other. Just some rivalry between them. I don't think it was to avoid anybody. They were afraid they weren't all going to make it through so they wanted to compete against one another. I thought that was cool. They all made it through to the final.

[ndnMSW]

I'm just going to be blunt and say that I've seen it many times and its a chickensh*t thing to do....if you don't have the guts to get in there and compete then you need to sit your butt down.

I saw it alot of times when we were on head staff at PI...I remember this one lady dancer did that and was really obvious about it...and she really laughed like it was funny when she got into the group she wanted. This was the same chick who kept buggin me to let her judge...which I never did.

Then the last time it happened to me, I walked out and stood next to my girl Tanksi and got ready for the group split...we were standing pretty close to each other and visiting, waiting to see the outcome, then all of the sudden this other lady who was hanging back to see what would happen jumps in-between me and Tunk at the last second. I ended up in the "tough" group...but then I was relieved REALLY fast cuz even though my group was tougher we got way better songs than the first group...lol. And then me and Tunk both ended up placing way higher than that lady that did that...lol.

What I can't stand is when you call them on it and they stand there and deny it...or they play dumb...like, "Geez, I can't count...I have no idea which group I"m in..."

There's nothing wrong with trying to guess how the split is going to go, then walking out and taking your chances where you start...but that's just gutless when you gotta do the switcheroo. Please....just sit your butt down if you gotta do that.

Idk...sometimes I like dancing in the tough group cuz it makes me dance harder...I like dancing in the same group as Tanksi cuz when I look up to see where I'm going I can always see her just going for it...and it makes me want to go for it just to keep up with her...lol.

[timmy tiger]

I've seen it before too and like some of the other's it's more blatant then what you are saying.LOL

I know one AD that actually caught the men doing that at a pow wow and he went up to the one and pointed, I couldn't hear what was being said--I was clear across the arena when it happened, but I saw the whole thing. The one guy moved just like you said as soon as the AD turned his back and then the AD turned back around before the first group started and he saw the guy and he went up to him and the guy was arguing with him and then finally he did move back into the group that he was originally in.

[Tom Clinton]

I am very oppossed to groups! unless

Your either gonna "cut the cake" or not.....

you are at GON where there is really not enought space to have everyone dance..then you gotta cut the cake!

That's about the only pow wow I can think of at the moment where you really have to split to groups.

1. why is it when they split you always end up with the same people in your group both days?
2. why is it your group gets a "stink song" from some group that came to practice?
3. why is all the wanna be's or learnersare in the other group?
4. why can't they just add more judges for large groups?
5. why do some dancer not even go down to floor until after the groups are split, (they have last minute???outfit adjustments) then go for the group they want?

[ndnMSW]

I forgot to add that I like being in the tough group too cuz if you do well in your contest and place high then no one has any excuses...they can't say (like I've heard people say about other dancers before), "Oh, they just lucked out in the group split and got in the easy group."

[Coyot_In_The_House]

Your gonna......

Hit da cream of the crop in the finals anyway.....So hide, duck, dodge, detour.....Your gonna hoka with the "A" group....

What i'd like to see is jr. and sr. adult categories.....

Categories breaking up tradish from neo tradish....I.E. Original Grass from Contemp Grass.....

Sure it "inflates" the budget and make the schedule tight, but in some cases its necessary and possible to do.....

[WhoMe]

Hit da cream of the crop in the finals anyway.....So hide, duck, dodge, detour.....Your gonna hoka with the "A" group....

What i'd like to see is jr. and sr. adult categories.....

Categories breaking up tradish from neo tradish....I.E. Original Grass from Contemp Grass.....

Sure it "inflates" the budget and make the schedule tight, but in some cases its necessary and possible to do.....

Yote,

Before we as powwow people get too far away from Original Grass, Original Traditional etc., I have given some thought to an "Original - Contest Powwow."

My reasoning being, "before all our current elders move on and are replaced by comtemporary powwow ways, it would show some respect to have a powwow that they could have a stake in."

In my idea, I would identify someone to interpret the earliest possible form of each particular dance category. This would be followed by a dance contest of what we now know as original category dancing (grass, straight, fancy, jingle and traditional). Knowledgable tribal elders from different regions would serve as judges.

Only original tribal powwow songs would be rendered for each original dance category. Predetermined drums would be invited to host. Major prize money, only seeing original dancing and only hearing original singing would be an incentive to come to this powwow.

If there are any casinos, tribes or universities willing to look into this possibility, please send me a PM.
__


ndnM, Timmy, Ki, ndns, super, and Kaykeeya,

I forgot to post the Ol' Swiitheroo can also include switching groups by all the means you have mentioned.

[Coyot_In_The_House]

Cho idea.....

Yote,

Before we as powwow people get too far away from Original Grass, Original Traditional etc., I have given some thought to an "Original - Contest Powwow."

My reasoning being, "before all our current elders move on and are replaced by comtemporary powwow ways, it would show some respect to have a powwow that they could have a stake in."

In my idea, I would identify someone to interpret the earliest possible form of each particular dance category. This would be followed by a dance contest of what we now know as original category dancing (grass, straight, fancy, jingle and traditional). Knowledgable tribal elders from different regions would serve as judges.

Only original tribal powwow songs would be rendered for each original dance category. Predetermined drums would be invited to host. Major prize money, only seeing original dancing and only hearing original singing would be an incentive to come to this powwow.

If there are any casinos, tribes or universities willing to look into this possibility, please send me a PM.
__


ndnM, Timmy, Ki, ndns, super, and Kaykeeya,

I forgot to post the Ol' Swiitheroo can also include switching groups by all the means you have mentioned.

That would be interesting in more ways then 1.....LOL! On one hand it would be informative and enligtening.....On the other hand...You know folks would dive right off the deep end as far as where this started, and who it originated with......And so on....Thats a given anyway...Good idea Who Me....I'd like to see someone take the ball and run with it.....

The National powwow had some good exhibitions....I enjoyed the singing, dancing and the information.....

Whole lot of knowledgable people out there (including you) who would be good resources.....

I miss those days talking to the Old Man....He was chock full of knowledge and was modest about it. Had a whole lot of respect for several people....Always willing to sit and visit and share.....