Bay Mills Indian Community 19th Annual Honoring Our Veterans Competition Pow Wow

[WhoMe]

Say the head drum judge is a well known singer and sings with a number of drums, but it is kinda obvious who his bros are... then what? Does it discourage other drums from coming?

Biz,

This is really valid and happens quite frequently. Anybody who sings competitively, knows who sings with who. With this inside knowledge it seems unfair when the head drum judge is in charge when his drum(s) are competing.

I have personally seen a head drum judge on a poster and knew in advance that the drum he sings with would place high.... his drum won.

[n8v_singer 4_life]

On the other hand....

So, what you are saying, N8tv singer, is that all it takes to be a fair drum judge is to adhere to the committee's specification for balloting and judging? Thats sound pretty simple to do, no doubt anybody with common sense and pow wow sense (note, they are not one in the same lol), can do a head singing job.

I'm saying a person's integrity and respect can make or break them. We've all been witness to lop-sided, unfair, unprofessional, disrespectable, and unbelievable, outcomes to some singing and dance contest's since competition changed pow-wow'ing forever. Haven't we???

Here's a hint, if any of the head judges are gone before the winner's are announced. It is very possible something is going or has gone on....

I still feel a person has to have a very high knowledge to be either a head singing or dance judge.

Was just seeing what other people's thoughts were.....

[sltate]

So, what you are saying, N8tv singer, is that all it takes to be a fair drum judge is to adhere to the committee's specification for balloting and judging? Thats sound pretty simple to do, no doubt anybody with common sense and pow wow sense (note, they are not one in the same lol), can do a head singing job.

[n8v_singer 4_life]

Interesting

I personally feel that each singer works to gain respect from other's singers. Along they way comes the integrity of the singer which has also been building.

Next into play would be this singer being asked to run a singing contest. Now, this singer has his own integrity as well as the integrity of the pow-wow committee he is being asked to do the work/perform that task of headsinger.

Regardless of what drum groups show's up whether it's drum group(s) the Head Singing Judge is either acquainted with or sometimes a solid member of a particular group. The job at hand is to run the singing contest to the specifications of the pow-wow, check all ballots before turning them over to the pow-wow committee for any "discrepancies". If discprepancies exists then they need to be dealt with immediately in order to run a fair contest while being firm, yet fair....And, making sure the pow-wow committee is informed and involved at all times.

Pretty simple right? Again, just MY views here....

In this case, I see your point. By having an impartial judge makes sense...

Thanks for chiming in Biz.......

n8v_singer 4_life

OK, I'll play along Singer...

What about the opposite of the intended purpose happening? Say the head drum judge is a well known singer and sings with a number of drums, but it is kinda obvious who his bros are... then what? Does it discourage other drums from coming?

I don't know if that happens, so I'm asking. Maybe a having a knowledgeable person not necessarily known as a singer makes it more impartial... thoughts?

[BizDawg]

Excellent feedback Whome!

Exactly what I was looking for. Some insight, knowledge, opinions, etc...

Maybe some don't realize the purpose of a "forum"...

It's not to put down, let down, or tear down anyone.

It's an opportunity listen, laugh, and learn from each other.

And, a reason to exercise your right to "free speech" in a good way....anonymously of course.

Thanks!

Anyone else????

OK, I'll play along Singer...

What about the opposite of the intended purpose happening? Say the head drum judge is a well known singer and sings with a number of drums, but it is kinda obvious who his bros are... then what? Does it discourage other drums from coming?

I don't know if that happens, so I'm asking. Maybe a having a knowledgeable person not necessarily known as a singer makes it more impartial... thoughts?

[n8v_singer 4_life]

Whooaaalaayyy!

Who cares, that's why I don't like going to powwows n singin at em too much anymore, always gotta be getting too technical and too much about the money.every once in a while I get the itch to hit the road but it doesn't take more than a few weeks to remember why it doesn't interst me anymore.that's too bad, I remember the days when it was all about having fun.

A little bitter bout things there Chief.

Guess the last part of your name says it all. Ayyee! j/k

It's all about good sportsmanship and competing, just the turn contest pow-wows took. Hit a couple of Traditional Pow-wows maybe?? I don't see it changing anytime soon.......

[elk_dik]

Who cares, that's why I don't like going to powwows n singin at em too much anymore, always gotta be getting too technical and too much about the money.every once in a while I get the itch to hit the road but it doesn't take more than a few weeks to remember why it doesn't interst me anymore.that's too bad, I remember the days when it was all about having fun.

[ajcameron]

Strugganona's questions

Hey Strugganona,

Just a quick note about some of the events. The Jigsaw puzzle contest is an event being sponsored by the only person that has worked on ALL 19 of our pow wows. She is having custom puzzles made of the pow wow flyer. It was her way of trying to offer up something fun for those that may not be able to get out there and step much anymore. This is an event that she is really looking forward to and hoped would be on the flyer, thus it is on the flyer.

Indian Bling! is a competition that was developed by one of our Tribal Council Leaders. Indian Bling! as I understand it involves beadwork, silverwork, etc. It is a competition that recognizes the work of our incredibly skilled artisans and/or the current holders of the pieces.

Hope you are able to join us this year!

[Strugganona]

SO..........
1) whats a jig saw puzzle contest?

AND

2) what-exactly-is an Indian Bling contest?

*L* i need to pow wow waaaaaaay more

[sltate]

Okay....lets approach this from two different viewpoints: A head singing judge should be knowledgeable of of the songs, drumbeats, etc. This is usually given to a person who is a singer, point well taken.
Drum groups will feel they are given a fair chance when the person in charge of the singing is one of their own, so to speak....especially when a lot of money is on the line. The same stands true for hiring a dance judge who has not danced, or isnt known to be a dancer...would they be able to choose judges who are knowledgable of the dancing styles and rhythms, regalias, etc...
Okay, now when you have someone like Rusty, who is a well known dancer, well traveled, belongs to societies back in North Dakota where diffrent styles of songs are sung, and he is drumhop so he knows the drums, songs and styles....does that qualify him? I believe it does for this reason...to be a good dancer, you also know your drums, you know the drumbeat each drum has, you know thier rhythm, their style, thier speed, their quality....you know which one you would pick (if given a choice) for your straight song or your change up song...you already know. It doesnt take holding a drum stick to be able to listen to how well a drum sings and beats the drum, whether they are knowledgeable of the diffrent styles of songs for each category, if they are straight or contemporary....thats just common sense and common pow wow sense.
And he knows who knows this so he will choose judges who know what to look for...thats the main thing, you will be judged by people who know what to look for.
Its different though, I believe, when you pick a dance judge who has never danced....i dont know...most good singers are good dancers also so you could reverse that role of a singer being a head dance judge???....lol....

[n8v_singer 4_life]

Got ya...

Excellent feedback Whome!

Exactly what I was looking for. Some insight, knowledge, opinions, etc...

Maybe some don't realize the purpose of a "forum"...

It's not to put down, let down, or tear down anyone.

It's an opportunity listen, laugh, and learn from each other.

And, a reason to exercise your right to "free speech" in a good way....anonymously of course.

Thanks!

Anyone else????

[WhoMe]

n8v,

I see your point. $23,000 is a lot of money. Should Rusty be able to hold his own with the best of them and have some years of experience behind the drumstick..so to speak....before serving as a head drum judge? In my experience, EVERY JUDGE has some bias - whether it be choosing a friend, adopted family member, drum group a person has sang with in the past, traveling partner(s), people owed a favor to, competitors from the same tribe, etc., etc., etc.

I know Rusty. I have used him on our head staff, I have seen him sing at Schemitzun (not sure if he started any of the songs) with a drum that placed and he even came to visit me couple of weeks ago. *L He is active in the powwow world. He is a member of one of his tribe's ceremonial societies. Rusty is knowledgable, I can vouch for this.

As a head drum judge, does this qualify him to pick knowledgable drum judges to do the actual judging and pick up their tabulation sheets?

I believe so.


I don't know if this is postive or negative input?

Anybody else???

[n8v_singer 4_life]

My Point

OK, all I am asking if some agree that if one is appointed to run a Singing Competition...especially a $23,000 Singing Contest.

Should they or Shouldn't they:
1, Know how to sing...
2, Be able to hold their own with the best of them...
3, Have some years of experience behind the drumstick..so to speak....

I don't see anywhere in my posts that I had a "prob"....LOL

Just wondering what some skinz thought's were on this....is all.

Maybe some feel being a Champion Dancer and often asked to help run pow-wow's around the "trail" constitutes being a Champion Singer too....don't know?

Sounds like a good pow-wow to go to though!!

Any positive or negative input out there??

hmm i got no prob with him being selected, very credible dude i would say..

goodluck with the pw aj

[WhoMe]

Who's the head judge for the Bay Mills Jig Saw Puzzle Contest? (A jig saw puzzle contest is listed on their powwow poster)

[injunboy]

hmm i got no prob with him being selected, very credible dude i would say..

goodluck with the pw aj