Pow Wow dance in Europe, is this against Native traditions?

[WhoMe]

Considering that women in the U.S. were not granted the right to vote until 1920...

Amigo,

I got that beat...

Indians were not allowed to vote in Utah until 1957!

[wanjica_the_one]

geeze. We all can dress like white people everyday of our lives, but when a white person attempts to dress like a Native.... everyone jumps in on em. LOL

after all is said and done. don't you think that we have a right to air our anger? we are not all one and the same with the same cloned minds. kudos to you for being able to have compassion and understanding for the white lady pocahontas.

[anishtradish]

geeze. We all can dress like white people everyday of our lives, but when a white person attempts to dress like a Native.... everyone jumps in on em. LOL


So what it a few old white women throw on Pocahontas Halloween costumes. It's no different than going to the rez and seeing someone in a cowboy hat and boots.


I doubt many people are actually going to look at these kinda people and really think they represent Native American culture, and if someone is gullible enough to buy into it, then they are stupid enough to where their views on our history shouldn't even matter.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Ushers or not. Their appearance is a disgrace to all native tribes.

Agreed. Calif has a lot of hippies and newagers, etc, can't deny that.

A friend of mine, 9th generation indigenous tried out, did not make cut for this.

Ironic cuz we were just up at Soboba Res at TANF 2010 Spring Family Event where Abel did his storytelling routine. Plenty of local Luiseno peeps just a few miles away from Ramona Bowl in Hemet, CA.

Well, now I have to squeeze this play into my schedule, attend and see up close what is going on.

Well, for her time era in hsitory, Helen Hunt Jackson did all she could.

[wanjica_the_one]

Ushers or not. Their appearance is a disgrace to all native tribes.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

First off I just want to say that obviously I do not know the author of the play nor any of the actors. But I will say what I believe is happening here LOL.

It would seem that individuals who are involved with this play would try to make this event as authentic as possible and true to the story for which it was portraying. It would seem that having Native actors involved would be important in the telling of this story.

Its true one can say well "we hold auditions every year" and anyone who is interested would have opportunity. Perhaps its just me but - the individuals involved also have a responsiblility to the story, to its author and to the audience as well.

I wonder if they went to any length to have indian actors in this play. If one wants indian actors, then you not only put the ad in the local papers, but one would actively seek out and advertise to the target group (indian actors). There are alot of natives in Cali, natives in school/college who are in drama, native theatrical groups etc... I wonder if anyone has actively sought out these native actors.

In my opinion it seems that perhaps its no longer about the story line, but more of just chance for the local actors to be a part of a play. And the picture reflects this LOL. Seriously if I saw this picture of a play, I definitely would not go because I already would how it would go down

Now get quit romanticizing, get back to the story line and actively seek out native actors especially if you want people to take this play seriously LOL.

This photo might be of ushers, I doubt they are in the play itself, thanks Wanjica.

There are something like 400 "actors" in this play as it unfolds.

The setting for "Ramona" is just a few miles from the Soboba Reservation of the Luiseno Nation, I was up there filming a friend's routine recently.

If I can, I'll go, takes notes and photos, and report back here.

[lbgood]

Raquel Welch (Tejada) did the Ramona role once. This is a play done by actors to celebrate the book "Ramona" which has been in print for over a century.

Open auditions every year...."to be or not to be"....could be your chance!

First off I just want to say that obviously I do not know the author of the play nor any of the actors. But I will say what I believe is happening here LOL.

It would seem that individuals who are involved with this play would try to make this event as authentic as possible and true to the story for which it was portraying. It would seem that having Native actors involved would be important in the telling of this story.

Its true one can say well "we hold auditions every year" and anyone who is interested would have opportunity. Perhaps its just me but - the individuals involved also have a responsiblility to the story, to its author and to the audience as well.

I wonder if they went to any length to have indian actors in this play. If one wants indian actors, then you not only put the ad in the local papers, but one would actively seek out and advertise to the target group (indian actors). There are alot of natives in Cali, natives in school/college who are in drama, native theatrical groups etc... I wonder if anyone has actively sought out these native actors.

In my opinion it seems that perhaps its no longer about the story line, but more of just chance for the local actors to be a part of a play. And the picture reflects this LOL. Seriously if I saw this picture of a play, I definitely would not go because I already would how it would go down

Now get quit romanticizing, get back to the story line and actively seek out native actors especially if you want people to take this play seriously LOL.

[wanjica_the_one]

Ramona is nothing but a big piece of cowpie.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

holay! take a look at these natives!

Raquel Welch (Tejada) did the Ramona role once. This is a play done by actors to celebrate the book "Ramona" which has been in print for over a century.

Open auditions every year...."to be or not to be"....could be your chance!

[AmigoKumeyaay]

lb,

You're right (again). *L

It would not have made any difference during that time period if she was a man.

Someone talked about the speech of Standing Bear that served as a catalyst for her Indian advocacy.

It was the 1879 Standing Bear Case that set the precedent that American Indians - for the first time "were persons within the meaning of the law."

One lecturer said that prior this ruling, American Indians were not considered human beings under the law.

Sad, huh?

Considering that women in the U.S. were not granted the right to vote until 1920, Ms. Hunt-Jackson was way ahead of her time. Men simply considered her to be a histrionic female during those years.

[Grits & Beans]

something to think about? yes. sad? i'd have to say no.

'hating you shall be a game played with cool hands. memory will lay it's hands upon your breast and you will understand my hatred' author- gwendolyn bennett

the hypocrisy is still there, its just not as blatant as it was in the past...

pow wows, politics, a second look at the law books: its all the same thing...

[WhoMe]

I don't think it would made much of a difference is she was a man. It was prolly becuz she was advocating for Ndn rights, which was basically non-existent. Heck they didn't want to acknowledge the atrocities committed, it would mean they were wrong.

lb,

You're right (again). *L

It would not have made any difference during that time period if she was a man.

Someone talked about the speech of Standing Bear that served as a catalyst for her Indian advocacy.

It was the 1879 Standing Bear Case that set the precedent that American Indians - for the first time "were persons within the meaning of the law."

One lecturer said that prior this ruling, American Indians were not considered human beings under the law.

Sad, huh?

[OLChemist]

...but those same mindsets, superiority complexes, and actions still exist today - It's not just a thing of the past. If one is still taking part today - then yes they need to take responsibility (and I understand its not everyone).

Exactly!

In regards to your cultural competence piece - the only people who will be cultural competent are the Ndns themselves. Non-indianz will never be culturally competent just because they are not ndn, never will be and they don't have the same experiences as us natives. However, I think they can have culturally awareness, but that would mean the would need to be respectful of Culturally appropriate boundaries as I have said before - but lines are being crossed left and right. And people wonder why some Ndns become defensive.

Again, exactly. The imprimatur imparted to ethnographic documentation has allowed non-Indians to presume to cultural competence. When at best what they have is knowledge of prior cultural interpretations.

I like your phase cultural understanding, by the way. And excellent term for describing the desired state.

[lbgood]

holay! take a look at these natives!

Another prime example!!!!!!!!!!!

[lbgood]

First, let me be very clear that this is one woman's perspective. My ideas do not represent all -- or even any -- other Indian people.



I'm not a fan of the idea of generational collective responsibility. I don't think it is beneficial to pass blame or guilt "unto the seventh generation." It just breeds bitterness and resentment and seldom produces positive changes in human relations.

However, if there is one thing I have learned in my 45 years as a mixed-blood woman, is that we are *all* victims of our worldview. Each culture passes on its own set of impartialities and biases, insights and blind-spots, strengths and weaknesses. The educated, humanist secular West has some unique blind spots when it comes to relating the other cultures -- particularly those it has conquered or colonized:

It forgets its missionary roots. People raised within the mindset of Euro-American and/or western European cultures tend to forget they come with a worldview driven by 2000+ years of the Great Commission and another few centuries of spreading "civilization." The modern, secular incarnation of this is the big blue marble, we're all one world, brothers under the skin perspective. They believe in sharing -- aggressively sharing technology, cultural ideas, religion, literature, whatever --i.e. the "good".

And they think everyone else does too. When they find people who don't share everything, it is almost an affront. Particularly, since the West seems to think that a colonized people's acceptance material culture or language or organizational forms creates a quid pro quo obligation. (Powwow.com-er's will recognize this part.) That leads to the following logical fallacy: "Indians use computers -- white men invented those -- therefore I should be able to dance (sweat, carry a pipe...)."

The West forgets it's spent a few centuries in the privileged position. By virtue of having the biggest guns, most virulent diseases, most chutzpah, it has been able -- not entitled, but able -- to pick and choose on the world buffet of ideas and resources. It has also assumed the privilege of claiming both the authority and cultural competence to act as self-appointed interpreter and preserver of minority cultures, more often than not reducing the essence of a people to a mere characture.

Taken together these two can lead to a tendency to violate cultural boundaries, especially when a greater good is perceived. What people here are asking is that before you imitate our ways, you consider whether the good of promoting cross-cultural understanding is a greater good than our maintaining the integrity of our culture for our children. Sometimes understanding is accepting no as an answer.

Thats a novel way of looking at things(not passing on the responsibility), but those same mindsets, superiority complexes, and actions still exist today - It's not just a thing of the past. If one is still taking part today - then yes they need to take responsibility (and I understand its not everyone).

In regards to your cultural competence piece - the only people who will be cultural competent are the Ndns themselves. Non-indianz will never be culturally competent just because they are not ndn, never will be and they don't have the same experiences as us natives. However, I think they can have culturally awareness, but that would mean the would need to be respectful of Culturally appropriate boundaries as I have said before - but lines are being crossed left and right. And people wonder why some Ndns become defensive.

I think it is good for non-indinaz to have some cultural understanding as you point out, but thats way different when the move is from just understanding(watching, dancing intertribals etc) to actively engaging and participating in cultural activities (dancing with ndn-regalia whether its powwow or sundance etc...

And I totally agree with your statement of "Sometimes understanding is accepting no as an answer".

Just my own personal opinio LOL