destroying the myth of aztlan and aztec HOBBYISTS

[koyoteh]

You don't listen. You just spew nothings from your mouth.

I know where my father's family is from. I knew my great grandmother. My grandmother would tell me stories of where she came from. She said my grandfather fought alongside Zapata. I can only repeat what she told me.

I know my mother's family. She was born in a small town north of Tucson and east of Globe. She would tell me stories of when she was a little girl. I knew my grandmother and aunts and uncle on my mother's side.

I'm going to write this so you can perhaps understand what I am saying.

I know where I come from. I know my family and the stories they told me. I know my cultures. BOTH of them.

Now...

You se quien soy. Yo se donde vengo. Conosco mi familia. Yo se donde vienen. Conosco mi cultura de los dos lados.

I don't need to depend on Lakotas (no insult to the Lakota Oyate) to tell me I'm Indian. My family told me.

I don't need somebody spewing Atzlan to know who I am. My family told me.

To this day, I have never denied, or been embarrassed, of who I am and where I came from.

To say, or even imagine, that I would go to a site and bash my own kind is just plain assenine. How fvcking stupid can you get.

I honestly believe you don't know who you are because your family never told you. You're grasping at air, you use someone's else's culture to make you feel like you belong. You talk of atzlan as if you know the migration route the people took. And yes, I've talked to people who still speak nahuac. They KNOW their story. I don't think you have the credentials to talk of things as you do.

Like Wanjica the One asked. What is your tribe. Who is your family. Where do they come from.

When you have those answers, then you can sit at the table.

its good to know who you are.
what a luxury.
thats nice.
Others don't have it so well. I support them and all of us to find that out.
Its a whole nutha experience being born not knowing those things. a whole other experience to not even know where to begin.
a whole nuthat experience to wake up one day and realize that everything you were born into was a lie.
And for natives who were born into it, to not knowing the experience of these things first hand, and putting the lost descendants down for their being born unknowing. FOr putting lost descdants down for making efforts to learn who they are.

theres something arrogant in that. something a bit conceited.

I have seen many many natives across the country have no respect for their elders. THey say there are elders and there are old people.
I have fought this idea for a very long time, but they are right.

Theres a reason native youth are/were disillusioned by the own elders. Not all, but some.

From alcohol abuse, to domestic abuse, to drugs, to rape and molestation. WE can't go anywhere in native land without running into these types of stories.

i am from a generation that wanted to undo these damages. but when old people do their best to tear down the younger ones, i am understanding why a lot of natives say "there are elders, and there are old people".

i don't know you in person. Maybe you are a very different person in person, and not somene who likes to make insults as a form of evidence.

anyone can make insults. but not everyone can make sense.

[Grits & Beans]

anyone can make insults. but not everyone can make sense.

[koyoteh]

because it keeps coming up

ok. when anyone brings up who i am , or who they are, it makes no sense.

NOt when the thread is about something specific that does not relate.

My family told me i am Yaqui. Also, on the other side, i been told more.

I dont' bring that up because it has nothing to do with a story that some call a myth.

If anyone wants to bring up who i am , in a thread about Aztlan, i ask you why?

NOw when i say i am yaqui, what does that mean? I didn't grow up in tucson if thats what anyone really wants to know. I didn't grow up speaking the language.
I found out more about my mexica side of things first. because it was here around me. I did not grow up in mexico city/tenochtitlan or any of the surrounding villages. I did not grow up in my granpas village in zacatecas, another 'mexica' people. Or growing up with my other grandpa that never shared he was mayan. Theres reasons why they never spoke. I do not condem them.
I also have a relative that fought in zapatas army. shooot, who doesn't. but again. lots of mexicans will not speak of these things.

i would argue that merely knowing your tribe and family is not enough. ITs a beginning.
but its not enough.
here's MY reason why.
A lot of tribes became christian or joined the foreigners armies and fully believe in their dogma.

since my situation of being born outside my homelands are a direct result of their foreign religion and armies, i am not seeing how me rushing 'home' is going to help.
At least thats how i used to see it when i was young.
Not anymore. but now i am without means to go 'home'.

No I stilll do not want to be 'traditional' if traditional means becoming white. becoming white meaning , becoming christian/catholic or patriotic. Thats not traditional. Sorry.

but thats not going to stop me from going back 'home' , and finiding the non christians out there.

[milehighsalute]

[MENTION=171008]milehighsalute[/MENTION]

yeah man, many chicanos have helped other 'non-american' groups out there in the world.

this is no secret. SOme of the photos that are out there though are not all real. some are photoshpped to express sentiment.


many chicanos and other natives whether lost or not , express sentiments for all of the u.s.a's enemies.

Natives are not unified. Some side with the english/british descendants and their U.S.A. army, and some side with the Mexican Armies, and some with the french. Then many squabble over speaking english or spanish, or corporate interests. and go kill other native tribes in the americas, or other tribes in the middle east. This siding has been going on since day one of the invasion.


Yet some will not side with any of those. Instead forming their own groups, that yes are skillfully weaker, but skill level is not the point. The point is that at some point we all need to take care of ourselves and show some unity and it has to start someowhere somehow.

so then we GOt AIM, black panthers, Brown Berets. Laters we had other groups, that took it further learning from their mistakes. I will not name them, but they are now where near related to mexica movement.

Then yes, the old MM, sprouted. ANd some how , their dognma overshadows all the good efforts of all the other groups out there.

but theres also NYM . Taking it further.


Talk about chicanos helping out some of the native struggles in mexico, and theres thousands of phots out there to show how that is being done. Its no secret.

ok.....i will name one......a mexica who fell in love with communism....studied it in school....moved to serbia as a journalist and now he and his buddy victor advocate other azlanistas to go get training fighting for russia......i am talking of one joaquin flores.....the syncretic studies guy...........now i do agree that russia is in the right and the US is backing up a very bad man, but telling other chicano US citizens it is their duty to go over and take arms, especially if the US gets more involved, to take arms against their fellow americans? thats treason if you ask me..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs2UxF0WH3Q&feature=youtu.be

look at video at :58 mark......recognize victor? one of the main mexica dudes......they claim to be exporting alot more able chicano and INDIAN bodies.......this is why i said earlier they were DANGEROUS

[koyoteh]

its good to critique

btw [MENTION=17431]Mile[/MENTION]highsalute

i think its good to analyzed and critique groups rhetoric and stories. theres a lot of mininformation out there , and its not the fault of those who hear the rhetoric.

as someone who says they are yaqui AND also a descendant of 'mexica', it would also be our responsibility to know what the hell we are doing and what the hell our "own" people are saying.

Mexica Movement is putting out there misinformation. Others are hearing it and being influenced by it.

Some are influenced by it by joining it and supporting it, and others are influenced by reacting to it and believing 'we are all like that'.

sometimes i wonder if MM was a govt created group just to cause internal community strife and disunity.

[koyoteh]

ok.....i will name one......a mexica who fell in love with communism....studied it in school....moved to serbia as a journalist and now he and his buddy victor advocate other azlanistas to go get training fighting for russia......i am talking of one joaquin flores.....the syncretic studies guy...........now i do agree that russia is in the right and the US is backing up a very bad man, but telling other chicano US citizens it is their duty to go over and take arms, especially if the US gets more involved, to take arms against their fellow americans? thats treason if you ask me..............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs2UxF0WH3Q&feature=youtu.be

look at video at :58 mark......recognize victor? one of the main mexica dudes......they claim to be exporting alot more able chicano and INDIAN bodies.......this is why i said earlier they were DANGEROUS

joaquin flores. ok . i will look that up. i didn't see anything in the video.
This is good you point this out. but for me, i have a different reason for it being good that its pointed out.

If MM is recruiting for foreign armies, then i would start there, if MM is against the foreign U.S.A. army, then i see no reson why they should join other white peoples armies.

HOWEVER, that being said. Lots of natives, and their lost descendants, are recognizing that the U.S. army, canadian army, and the mexican army, are all the foreign invaders armies.
Lots of natives across the country do see the U.S. , canadian and mexican soldiers as paid guns for hire. because they get paid. ITs a job. SOme dictionaries call guns for hire, mercenaries. Lots of natives, not just 'mexica', see all soldiers as mercenaries.
They see anyone joining any of these armies as a type of treason.

in the end treason is really about who's team a person is on. They don't see it as treason.

I know theres a lot of natives who join armies, just for the sake of training and combat experience. With that i don't think they are caring what team they are on since they are against all the teams out there.

i am going to look again at :58.

[koyoteh]

for sure , there are a lot of people here who have donned that red star.

it kind of died out , but was strong for a good 15 years or so.

i think its cause , again, most were kids and grew up.

a lot of people were donning that red star, because they liked some of what the red star stood for, sure. but many donned it just cause it was rebellious. Plain and simple.

i remember a time when a lot of natives were really into black sabbath, iron maiden, slayer and more and wore a lot "devil" styles. But like my cuz said, it wasn't cause they were into the devil, but they were being rebllious.

over here, many of us were anti red star, but on the grounds that if we were trying to be pro -tribal, and anti white govt, then fighting over capitalism, commmunism, marxism, or any of that didn't make sense.
i don't want to complicate thngs by becoming some other foreign style like communism.

[koyoteh]

i wanna know more about this joaquin dude. Never heard of him.

what i am looking for is to see if he's for real, or a propaganda tool.

so much out there that isn't real.

[Joe's Dad]

its good to know who you are.
what a luxury.
thats nice.
Others don't have it so well. I support them and all of us to find that out.
Its a whole nutha experience being born not knowing those things. a whole other experience to not even know where to begin.
a whole nuthat experience to wake up one day and realize that everything you were born into was a lie.
And for natives who were born into it, to not knowing the experience of these things first hand, and putting the lost descendants down for their being born unknowing. FOr putting lost descdants down for making efforts to learn who they are.

theres something arrogant in that. something a bit conceited.

I have seen many many natives across the country have no respect for their elders. THey say there are elders and there are old people.
I have fought this idea for a very long time, but they are right.

Theres a reason native youth are/were disillusioned by the own elders. Not all, but some.

From alcohol abuse, to domestic abuse, to drugs, to rape and molestation. WE can't go anywhere in native land without running into these types of stories.

i am from a generation that wanted to undo these damages. but when old people do their best to tear down the younger ones, i am understanding why a lot of natives say "there are elders, and there are old people".

i don't know you in person. Maybe you are a very different person in person, and not somene who likes to make insults as a form of evidence.

anyone can make insults. but not everyone can make sense.

This is your first post. You came in without ever introducing yourself and started talking about anger, being unknowing, jumping on bandwagons and creating hate.

Respect is introducing yourself before you even think of beginning to speak. Where is YOUR respect?

Now you can't come in here and start talking like you know everything because those who KNOW see right through you.

What you took as insults were ways of making you come out and say who and what you truly are. Where were the insults?

Sit down in OUR house, sit and listen. Read what others have brought to the table before. Talk in a good way.

Like I said before. I am old. I've walked where you have walked.

You will learn challenging others is not what you want to do.

unknowing

This thread is full of misinformation.
WHat is valid is the anger that some feel when they hear this misinformation.
The listeners do not necessarily know how to filter what they hear, they don't know the history of other nations, and they don't know about all the sub groups that branched off because of it.

THey are unknowing and refuse to admit that they just don't know.

all they would have to do is ask questions about how things developeed to be the way they are now. For other nations AND their own nations.

But instead they jump on the anti mexican bandwagon of U.S. Patriots and Freemasons and create hate pages on FB and block everyone who shows them facts of history they never learned about.
It does'nt seem they want to know.

[Joe's Dad]

Let me add. Tomorrow, I leave to go dance with my son. I don't drink, smoke, go to bars, or generally F up.

My son is 27. He is my baby. I raised him in a good way. Friday, we will enter the circle dancing Eagle Bustle.

You cannot change the past, but you can create the future.

[Grits & Beans]

Boom!!!

[Grits & Beans]

so much out there that isn't real.

I know exactly where its at too. In your mirror. Go look...

[milehighsalute]

i admit to repeating misinformation that i have heard......but i am trying to learn........most importantly i learned that what i dislike about mexinazis......most mexican ndns dislike also.......common ground........i now know what aztlan really is compared to what i am told it is by hate groups

[koyoteh]

You cannot change the past, but you can create the future.

And that i truly believe in

[koyoteh]

This is your first post. You came in without ever introducing yourself and started talking about anger, being unknowing, jumping on bandwagons and creating hate.

Respect is introducing yourself before you even think of beginning to speak. Where is YOUR respect?

Now you can't come in here and start talking like you know everything because those who KNOW see right through you.

What you took as insults were ways of making you come out and say who and what you truly are. Where were the insults?

Sit down in OUR house, sit and listen. Read what others have brought to the table before. Talk in a good way.

Like I said before. I am old. I've walked where you have walked.

You will learn challenging others is not what you want to do.

unknowing

This thread is full of misinformation.
WHat is valid is the anger that some feel when they hear this misinformation.
The listeners do not necessarily know how to filter what they hear, they don't know the history of other nations, and they don't know about all the sub groups that branched off because of it.

THey are unknowing and refuse to admit that they just don't know.

all they would have to do is ask questions about how things developeed to be the way they are now. For other nations AND their own nations.

But instead they jump on the anti mexican bandwagon of U.S. Patriots and Freemasons and create hate pages on FB and block everyone who shows them facts of history they never learned about.
It does'nt seem they want to know.

Undetstood. But respect goes both ways.

Insult is saying that aztlan is garbage. Pretty much thatvsums it up. It woukd be like me saying you or your yribe or family or ancestors are garbage. Not good.

This can be said in so many different ways.
Introducing myself. Well been on this site since 2009. Maybe not so much. But was here.

But ay i understand.
I know the whole routine of "who are you" .
Doesnt mean i am going to agree with it. Although most natives are cool with that, not everybody is ubtil they get to know each other. Not all people are the same even though a lot like to say we are all thw same on that part.

In getting to know people, take more than asking that. Takes conversation. Better is to meet but internet dont make that easy.
Some things are better asked syraight out " what do you mean by that?" Might find that i actually agree and tried to say same things but from a different angle.

I might asnswer " oh man i left out a word" or i might findbyou undetstood in a way i didnt mean, and i could correct myself even find a clearer way to write.

But to respond with a native story beimg garbage, that aint gonna help. So then i have to wonder about intent and motives.

Seen a lot of provocateurs stir up hostilities betqeen noethwrn and southern. Only people i can see benefitting from that are those against unity.

If thats not you , all i can say i that decided ti do my own chexking.

Privacy, is something else. Some dont want inity but want remain private. Thats ok.

Some tribes have had memebers come out hwre and take advantage of the ignorant. Also not cool.

But thwn the tribes complain about the studenta and the followera rather than the teaxhers.

I would rather hear solutiona than insults about stories being garbage. As long as that takes place, there will always be hostility betqeen indiviflduals


Typos due to touchscreen. Not gonna edit