Southwest "mexican" history after Cortes

[koyoteh]

It might be a good idea to actually read and understand what you are responding to for once smart guy.

I can smell the rubber burnin

i only read and get an understand of what you wrote.

if you have typos, and those typos changed the word, i can't help that.

everybody makes typos. and everybody leaves a word out now and then.

example , you said you didn't say "illogical" and its right there to be read. WEll that changes what you meant. NOt my fault.
honest mistake.

[koyoteh]

well sometimes people need to be discredited publicly.....i was getting ratpacked bigtime by self proclaimed aztlanistas all over facebook and called a "white boy sellout federal agent causing division" because i support 3 things that i never faltered in

1) sovereignty of each southwestern tribe
2) cultural privacy free from misappropriation...from ANYONE even by our half-cousins from south of the border
3) correction of misinformation regarding the tribes

even the "mature" ones got caught up in "team up against the native" and they had the mindset that all of a sudden they were no longer native but now "mexican" and banded together.....before you got there there was some mexican nationalism mixed in too.....and their anger at me for calling them mexican instead of native was ironic because one of the groups was called "REAL mexican problems"

ok.....so while i was being attacked, alot of hotheads told me "well i'm apache and you are wrong" followed by threats and mexican nationalism

so i educated them about basic bare bones apache history in correlation with mexico, in which i was ridiculed so i asked the questions

"which tribe of i'nde are you? are you enrolled? who are your clans? who are your family? when is the last time you visited your people? do the i'nde claim you? what does aztlan have to do with the apache? what does mexican nationalism ave to do with the apache?"

they responded by calling me a fake white man who didnt know anything about being ndn and the classic "i know who i am, i dont need the white man to tell me, i dont need papers to prove it" blah blah blah......they did not even know what "i'nde'" was....they said "i already told you what tribe cant you read?"

i had this exact conversation at least 25 times over the last week

now when you enter a conversation with the attitude of "you are wrong because i am apache and i said so" well then you presume to speak for apaches.......so knowing the apache tribes rather well i feel that i am entitled to question their authenticity and their qualifications....especially when they are attempting to undermine the 3 points i keep trying to instill

same goes for that idiot who had the nerve to tell me he was taos!! not knowing i was taos

i asked him who his family was, who his clans were, did he vote, does he go to feast?, does he go for other dances? does he go for ditch cleaning day?.....you can imagine what his response was......more verbal abuse

you probably can relate, because you are yaqui.

i dont know much about yoehme........but someone who does may ask those same questions........maybe you have asked thos questions of others yourself

in fact im sure they have, since yaqui are one of the big 3 for mexican twinkies. just as the white twinkies have the big 3 (cherokee,lakota,blackfoot) mexican twinkies have their own big 3 (apache, yaqui, navajo)

i seen some of your posts personally, and i can agree with they at least some things went down.

when people don't know each other, they don't know what the other people mean or 'really' mean.
they don't know from what motives they are coming from, so they check each other out.

while checking each other out they do what they do in fight ring, jab and dodge and study each other.

you know about that part.

but some bs happens . somebody says something wrong, or something vague, and the reader fills in the blanks and makes assumptions about 'tones' and also about past experiences with crazy people and they put that on the new guy.

example: : when ya said "team up against the native" . you know what you mean. I NOW know what you mean. but on its own, it implys an accussation that anyone disagreeing is not native.
OUCH. see the prob?

then since some of those FB sites delete people who do have info to contribute, however disagreeable, or ask a question, or actually have answers to the creators of the pages questions, they get blocked and deleted, and then the page makers say that no one is ansereing their questions.

see how that can be a problem?

Now i know that you said you don't do that and thats good, but the other ones did. ANd when you became a mod of one of those pages, the poeple have no choice but to lump all the mods together as a team , because the mods do not make themselves known.

about being yaqui? yeah, our history is crazy.
by definition of a lot of whats is said about standards of who is real, yaquis who left home have a real hard time.
THis is why the whole standard of questioning has flaws. THe standard of asking what poeple claim you? what clan are you from? all that type of stuff does not fit all tribes.

Then people say, well its up to the tribes own standards to decide who is who, but then go on to tell people from another tribe that they are not real. Thats a weird double standard.

then you got the mexicas, who have their own rules and customs that are way way different than a helluva lot of other tribes. some of them so opposite that each one offends the other and says 'no real native would ever do that'. not knowing that in their tribe its okay.

heheh. by the way.....my cousins are taos.

they are there on their rez right now. they are half yaqui. not that that matters.

[koyoteh]

well sometimes people need to be discredited publicly.....i was getting ratpacked bigtime by self proclaimed aztlanistas all over facebook and called a "white boy sellout federal agent causing division" because i support 3 things that i never faltered in

1) sovereignty of each southwestern tribe
2) cultural privacy free from misappropriation...from ANYONE even by our half-cousins from south of the border
3) correction of misinformation regarding the tribes

problem is that once a person writes something, everyone holds them to it forever. even if people come to an understanding and an agreement , and make changes while still maintaining their beliefs, people wont see or accept that.

excample. I dis agree with a lot of what you wrote. but now i know where you are coming from and why.

anyhow, those big three things you want up there. THey are good.
I have a question . How long have these 3 desired things been around? How many people know about it?
Has it been posted up on those pages yet?

i for one never saw these things til the other day when you showed me.

If its a group thing, like some of the other guys ( don't know if they are real friends or just FB 'frineds' ) believe in that, then i feel they would have an easier time if they were to post that up FIRST and FOREMOST. cause it wasn't .

that would have a completely different reaction.

but mexica movement......won't matter there. they are the way they are. i dont' really see much difference in the way some groups behave whether they be mexica movement or their opposition.

here and there individuals come along that help get thier sides to change things though.

[gilisi]

i only read and get an understand of what you wrote.

if you have typos, and those typos changed the word, i can't help that.

everybody makes typos. and everybody leaves a word out now and then.

example , you said you didn't say "illogical" and its right there to be read. WEll that changes what you meant. NOt my fault.
honest mistake.

Go back and read again smart guy. you even quoted me on it. Don't seem to matter how anyone spells... you're just stuck on stupid.

Is there a smack talkin thread in the 49 we can send this too? LOL

[milehighsalute]

had to re-read this.....as i have a new influx of mexi-nazis telling me how "white" i am for not agreeing with them

[AmigoKumeyaay]

The big movement on Facebook are the TLACAN NICAS who are saying:

all Indigenous brown people from Alaska down to Chile are NATIVE AMERICANS.

[Joe's Dad]

Where do you all find this stuff?

[subeeds]

Where do you all find this stuff?

Seriously. Inquiring minds want to know.

[eagleclanriverband]

The big movement on Facebook are the TLACAN NICAS who are saying:

all Indigenous brown people from Alaska down to Chile are NATIVE AMERICANS.

Personally, I don't know about all these things being discussed on this thread and I'm not on Facebook.

But I wanted to chime in here because it's not just a movement ON Facebook, but it is the actual Facebook Corporation itself who has chosen to promote & has adopted this notion that:

"NATIVE AMERICANS INCLUDE ALL people from SOUTH AMERICA, CENTRAL AMERICA, & NORTH AMERICA who maintain a cultural affiliation with their local community" (I'm paraphrasing but that's basically verbatim what was written on their Corp. HR website.)

I was really surprised to read this!

About a month ago, my husband encouraged me to apply for a job to work at Facebook (LOL! We knew it was a long shot since I don't have a FB account & it is really tough to get hired there), but I thought what the heck??? Why not try cuz the job sounded interesting...working with non-profit groups registered on Facebook to utilize their social media fundraising products. (In my spare time, I volunteer as VP in charge of fundraising for a 501c3 that gives out scholarships.)

Anyway after I submitted my resume, then came all the classification questions and for race, they separately ask if you are of Hispanic/Latino origin, then they list Caucasian, African-American, Asian, but instead of having "American Indian/Alaskan Native" as an option, they list the above definition as to what Facebook considers to be Native American.

I showed my husband this Facebook HR Native American definition cuz I couldn't believe it. We just looked at each other & shook our heads.

I've thought about writing the Facebook HR/Talent Team. I don't care if they never hire me, but I thought about all the young NDNs coming up in college with engineering/computer science/marketing/business majors who might be trying to get a job at Facebook & start their career. I was thinking I should speak up for them. I don't know; I was thinking of maybe calling AISES & see if they could do something.

My sense is that Facebook doesn't have a lot of NDNs working for them. So somebody at FB decided if we change the name to "Native American" & expand the definition of what that means to include all continents then they will APPEAR to have diversity in their workforce.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Past few years Facebook has been challenging Native Americans over their NAMES.

names like Killsinwater, Sixkiller, Eaglespeaker, etc. Facebook has demanded the name be changed, or submit copy of official ID that proves

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Tee Shirt on Facebook
.

[AmigoKumeyaay]

The Mexica Movement is an "Indigenous rights educational organization" based in Los Angeles, California. Their organization views Mexicans (a term Mexica Movement rejects) of Native Mexican and Amerindian descent, as one people who are falsely divided by European-imposed borders. Their ultimate objective is the non-violent, democratic "liberation" of the Western Hemisphere from European-descendants.

The organization seeks to create a future nation called Cemanahuac. The group views "White" people as Europeans who are squatting on indigenous lands, and who must be repatriated back to Europe. The group rejects the "Aztlan ideology" as being too limited, seeking instead to unite the entire American continents under indigenous control.

Mexica Movement is a non-violent, educational organization. It focuses on teaching the public about the pre-European civilizations of Nican Tlaca (indigenous people). In addition, the group promotes the study of incidents of alleged "European genocidal crimes against [Indigenous People]".

[milehighsalute]

The Mexica Movement is an "Indigenous rights educational organization" based in Los Angeles, California. Their organization views Mexicans (a term Mexica Movement rejects) of Native Mexican and Amerindian descent, as one people who are falsely divided by European-imposed borders. Their ultimate objective is the non-violent, democratic "liberation" of the Western Hemisphere from European-descendants.

The organization seeks to create a future nation called Cemanahuac. The group views "White" people as Europeans who are squatting on indigenous lands, and who must be repatriated back to Europe. The group rejects the "Aztlan ideology" as being too limited, seeking instead to unite the entire American continents under indigenous control.

Mexica Movement is a non-violent, educational organization. It focuses on teaching the public about the pre-European civilizations of Nican Tlaca (indigenous people). In addition, the group promotes the study of incidents of alleged "European genocidal crimes against [Indigenous People]".

except they are not non-violent.....but in person they are.....being i was a REAL gang member in the local chicano in my neighborhood

but they hide behind nahualtl names and talk real violent stuff and always claim they gonna get me and im pretty sure they are some of those who come shake my hand all the time and are all over me when they see me in person

now the other ones from other states are much braver, they know they will never run from me so i have been fb attacked and harassed by phone over last few years, they even made a bunch of memes about me and ex-girlfriend from whatever photos they can scour......and they have the ratpack mentality because they outnumbered me

funny how one minute im a "rez-neck" nazi who they say tries excluding them because of their non-affiliation of a tribe and in next breath i am a "vendido" sellout who is really loves the white ways and am probably in fact white myself then call me a chomo on top of that when calling me an fbi agent gets old

nican tlaca is one thing on the net.....but if you ever have the displeasure of talking to these nuts they consider nican tlaca as the unification of all indigenous, the erasure of borders and return of all white people back to europe....voluntarily, if necessary by violence

they also have this notion that mexicas had an empire that extended to canada and they walked around ruling the whole western hemisphere and their influence was far and wide.....too bad history says otherwise

mostly made up of chicanos who as joe's dad says are looking for justification to hang a dreamcatcher from their rear-view mirror and steal pics and quotes of geronimo, sitting bull, oceola, washakie ect ect ect to use for their pro-immigration views

funny thing is i am learning none of them know what tribe they descend from, know their tribal history, know their tribal community......and never even been to mexico.....in fact the majority are your everyday run of the mill american chicanos who being super-chicano is no longer good enough for them....they now gotta be super indian

its ignorance at its finest.....just like their white counterparts they spend alot of time telling north of the border natives that they know more about us than we know about ourselves and they have no grasp on history of the southwest........buncha azzhats, but the problem is sometimes their numbers swell and if you correct them youre met with hostility and them calling you a sellout....whatever

koyoteh did explain how most danzates, aztlanistas, mexicas, brown berets, crusade for justice types have many differences and they arent all like that......but unfortunately they are EXACTLY like their white counterparts in you dont know who is racist and unreasonable until you gather all of them in large numbers and give them fake screen names to hide behind....thats when they show their true colors and who is who

anyways i dont really expect anyone outside the sw to really have much experience with them

i was contacted on FB by a self proclaimed chief of the new jersey taino trying to legitimize the yamassee frauds posing as a tribe, he also told me the washiitas and euchees were legit......he doesnt seem to chief over anyone though except a few people on the net.....and has alot of wolf and scantily clad native maiden pics on his profile though........i give it a few years before they take a turn for the hostile and become a problem for the purto ricans on the east coast as the mexicas are for any brown/red people in the southwest.....i sure as hell dont see these tribes popping up in puerto rico/dominican republic, just ny/nj

thats it for now im sure ill have more to rant about later

[milehighsalute]

Tee Shirt on Facebook
.

yep my feed is filled up everyday with these shirts

they are getting better.....they were way more twinkie-ish in the past

they also used to advertise that buying them was supporting native americans.....they dont claim that anymore

a whole group of us constantly bombarded their comments section and inbox asking what tribe and what program they supported by buying these shirts

of course all the blond haired blue eyed cherokees with cool indian sounding names told all us real injuns that we were full of hate in our hearts just for asking.......sigh

facebook can be fun...all kinds of lunatics on there......i just exposed some other woman collecting money from white people in some twinkie groups and saying she was the return of White Buffalo Calf Woman......i spread her crap far and wide and ended up getting one of her groups took down because of indians questioning her so much.......you should see her videos ill post if anyone is interested

i call her white bunghole crack woman.....because thats what she is

[subeeds]

Wow-reading that just blows my mind. I've found that most groups like that who claim to be non-violent, usually are just the opposite. Send all the white people back to Europe-ROFL!! Like that's going to happen. I hope you are watching your back-these kind of people can be sneaky dangerous.

I think the woman you said was telling people she was the second coming of White Buffalo Calf Woman is the 3rd or 4th one I've heard of. So many frauds out there, and so many suckers who fall for it. I think they should all just go take a long walk off a short pier.