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Tired of fixed Pow Wows *especially in New Mexico*

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  • Tired of fixed Pow Wows *especially in New Mexico*

    :Mad Im starting to notice that ALOT of people in New Mexico host fixed Pow Wows. At the state fair pow wow in albuquerque last year, the pow wow comitee posted a sign with big read letters that said "Point System enforced" and when you read the rules, it said all dancers must be on time for grand entries, dancers in specials must be 18 years of age or older, all dancers must be registered to claim prize money and must have number present. So this guy named Elton Tortalita from Santo Domingo, comes to the pow wow on the very last day, wasnt registered, competed in the team dance catagory and had some little 7 year old kid in his team, and he took first! It was straight up boloney guyz, all cuz he knew the judges. Im tired of not winning, I dance for myself and my family but at the same time the prize money is important to me. It goes to the gas tank, goes to the bills and food. I dance hard, as hard as everyone else and yet I get over looked because Im not "In" with the judges? Is it just me? Of has anyone else experienced this problem?:Mad
    ..::First ever 2002-2003 Powwows.com Princess::..
    ~*~*~* The original POWWOWCHIC49 *~*~*~
    *~*JINGLE IT*~*

  • #2
    Happens a lot - most of the places we go. We just dance our best and if we manage to hit it - Great! If not then we made the others dance harder.

    That's competition pow-wow!

    Comment


    • #3
      like bruce almighty would say "and that's the way the cookie crumbles" LOL j/k
      Last edited by Roobz; 10-01-2007, 01:00 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        This happens in B.C too

        Man I hear what your saying. I don't win either, but I love dancing and winning money at a pow wow is quite the bonus for me, but not really a big deal. But I don't think I want to win by just knowing the judges.. I'd rather win on my skill. When I placed 3rd that was my first time winning.. I was sooo happy!! I couldn't believe it! then I placed 1st.. Whoa.. U shoulda seen me behind the scenes!! Kept my cool walking up there though. This I did on my own. And I loved it. Nothing can top that! :D

        Comment


        • #5
          Do you think it is the same for tiny tots? my daughter is two and she just started and is mostly playing out there, she one a dollar like all the others but the real winner was related to the anouncer. Do you think Tiny Tot is fixed too?

          Comment


          • #6
            Tiny Tot's rigged? no

            I would sure like to think that Tiny yot's are not rigged! after all the whole idea of haveing that "comp" is to let them show their stuff and if in the future they should comp for real they will be used to people in the circle Judging them when im picked to judge i get my paper act like im writing get in a huddle with the other judges and announce it was so hard cause they were all so good that they all win and in my opp they all won even the little ones being led by a loved one,having a seat I could go on and on gosh last tiny tot my then 3 yr old danced i was head-lady and he sat in the arena with his power rangers and they danced to the beat of the drum i was about to go and take the toys away and walk with him and Grandmas came from all over and told me to let that baby alone he was doing his best!!! and who am I to question the Grandma's? then after the song they brushed him off and hugged him and that evening he got somemore dollars that may seem like a bit much but they sure enjoyed him. Now as far as the Judgeing for adults ive seen it there are times if you know who is doing the judging and see the people in comp you can pretty much tell who is going to place and even what order they will place in!!! we have sat back and done that before, I was going to comp at one dance and found out my sister-in-law was a judge so i went and pulled my name from the list and the people at the desk really tried to talk me out of removing my name!!! now i know that she would of been fair but it just does not look rite and people would of found out and of course had a fit. But the people who win and know they should of not won that will follow them so are they really winners? I think not there is no honor in cheating and in my opp that is what is happening.
            I got a fevah! And the only cure is more cowbell!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Fixed Pow wow's

              Ah yes, fixed pow-wow's, we have them here in Ontario too. My daughter is a champion dancer, but for some reason whenever she attends a couple of pow wows futher South, she never places. The last one she went to near alongthe St Clair River, she danced hard all week-end, and didn't even place. The prize money went to people from New Mexico. And yes it was supposed to be judged on the point system, but those dancers only danced in the grand entries and during their dance contest. Go figure.

              Comment


              • #8
                well.. what would you do if you knew you were dancing your best but, ya just knew that someone out there is better.... they are always better, you had never beat them... but then the committee announced the winners and there ya were... placing. ok yeah.. this happened to me... I placed when i knew i shouldnt have... then my friend's mom came up to me afterwards, and said i dont place as much as i should, so she picked me as 1st so i would get the points... i felt bad, but what could i do? should i have told the committee? given back the money? TIPPED HER?? ayes...

                I have been told many times that i dont place as much as i should... and i dont know why... i dance my hardest and carry myself respectfully. I love powwowin' but cant afford to travel much... I guess my regalias could use some work, so ill get on it...

                GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE UNDER DOGS OUT THERE !!!
                Love the Dance...
                Feel the Drum

                Comment


                • #9
                  RedP,

                  Many of your same concerns have been posted to your topic.

                  Duane Harris, who runs the NM State Fair powwow, is a good friend of mine. Duane is a caring person with great values. Please talk to him and tell him your concerns. I am sure he will take your advice and apply them to next year's powwow.


                  "Be pro-active rather than reactive."


                  Good luck in the future!
                  Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by WhoMe
                    RedP,

                    Many of your same concerns have been posted to your topic.

                    Duane Harris, who runs the NM State Fair powwow, is a good friend of mine. Duane is a caring person with great values. Please talk to him and tell him your concerns. I am sure he will take your advice and apply them to next year's powwow.


                    "Be pro-active rather than reactive."


                    Good luck in the future!


                    *cough, cough....bull****!!*

                    .....I've seen it too many times WhoMe. You gotta have some iota of Pue-blow blood to get in at a New Mexico powwow.

                    .....or be a Cozad....aye!!

                    GAH!!!!!!

                    j/k


                    I think it's a real problem that's not going away, and all this talk of being "proactive" is just us blowin' hot air at the organizers and judges. It's simply the way things go. I've been at enough powwows in New Mexico to know how it operates.

                    The winners are the winners because of their names, their reputations......often not because they're good dancers, but, because they kiss *** better than alot of us? I dunno, it's a combination of *** kissin', you out on the trail beatin' the bushes and makin' a name for yourself, or you having the pity of a few judges who'll put your number down.


                    ........I'll contest when I have the time and I don't care who's there, I'll give it my all, but, I'll refrain from throwing my opinions around to the organizers and judges on hand. Besides, alot of times it's friends of dancers who are dancing that are doing the judging. Plus, I know a few times when you actually ask to see the tabulations, the tabulators get all up in your face about it and then start yelling for security because you're supposedly "out of line"..........huh????

                    OR, OR....they'll throw that whole $100 complaint fee thing at you.

                    I call it BS. It's someone back there cookin' the books, allowing SHODDY, BAD, MEDIOCRE dancers the win when it's the folks out there for every grand entry, every intertribal, every round dance or spectator/dancer type activity that RIGHTLY deserve the win.

                    I liked what the late 8 Ball Jim had to say about this....."Judge on Ability no on who you know"

                    Least, I think it was him.

                    Just my opinion, thrown around for throwin' arounds sake.


                    I know at a few California powwows, I've seen supposedly good dancers, well known names get the gate and walk outta there with nothing but the sh!tty attitudes they arrived with, wondering and complaining about how they're not coming back next year cause this powwow is unfair and wasn't honest about judging..........when in fact........the powwow followed (for once) the actual RULES they set forth. They REALLY used the point system, and the dancers who were out there dancing.........REALLY got to be the winners. I mean, granted you're are contesting to contest, and I know dancers that show up, go thru Grand Entry, or walk in late, get their numbers taken down, then walk off, and you don't see them until it's time to contest........no intertribal dancing, no round dancing....nothing, nada, zip........yet, they place.

                    I'm not saying it's cause they ain't got some mad crazy skills and they can flat out jam.............I'm saying, if they REALLY judged according to the rules they set down and hand out to dancers...........you'd see alot of people that normally DON'T place, actually placing. I think it'd only make for a better contest, it'd only make the so-called "winners" out there wake up and realize, "HEY!!! I'd better hustle my tookus out there and dance if I wanna win this thing!!"
                    "This next song goes out to some girls in dot com. They don't know who they are, but, it doesn't really matter anyway."




                    "When the God's wish to punish us, they grant our prayers."

                    O. Wilde

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mr Bo Jangles
                      *cough, cough....bull****!!*

                      .....I've seen it too many times WhoMe. You gotta have some iota of Pue-blow blood to get in at a New Mexico powwow.

                      .....or be a Cozad....aye!!

                      GAH!!!!!!

                      j/k


                      I think it's a real problem that's not going away, and all this talk of being "proactive" is just us blowin' hot air at the organizers and judges. It's simply the way things go. I've been at enough powwows in New Mexico to know how it operates.

                      The winners are the winners because of their names, their reputations......often not because they're good dancers, but, because they kiss *** better than alot of us? I dunno, it's a combination of *** kissin', you out on the trail beatin' the bushes and makin' a name for yourself, or you having the pity of a few judges who'll put your number down.


                      ........I'll contest when I have the time and I don't care who's there, I'll give it my all, but, I'll refrain from throwing my opinions around to the organizers and judges on hand. Besides, alot of times it's friends of dancers who are dancing that are doing the judging. Plus, I know a few times when you actually ask to see the tabulations, the tabulators get all up in your face about it and then start yelling for security because you're supposedly "out of line"..........huh????

                      OR, OR....they'll throw that whole $100 complaint fee thing at you.

                      I call it BS. It's someone back there cookin' the books, allowing SHODDY, BAD, MEDIOCRE dancers the win when it's the folks out there for every grand entry, every intertribal, every round dance or spectator/dancer type activity that RIGHTLY deserve the win.

                      I liked what the late 8 Ball Jim had to say about this....."Judge on Ability no on who you know"

                      Least, I think it was him.

                      Just my opinion, thrown around for throwin' arounds sake.


                      I know at a few California powwows, I've seen supposedly good dancers, well known names get the gate and walk outta there with nothing but the sh!tty attitudes they arrived with, wondering and complaining about how they're not coming back next year cause this powwow is unfair and wasn't honest about judging..........when in fact........the powwow followed (for once) the actual RULES they set forth. They REALLY used the point system, and the dancers who were out there dancing.........REALLY got to be the winners. I mean, granted you're are contesting to contest, and I know dancers that show up, go thru Grand Entry, or walk in late, get their numbers taken down, then walk off, and you don't see them until it's time to contest........no intertribal dancing, no round dancing....nothing, nada, zip........yet, they place.

                      I'm not saying it's cause they ain't got some mad crazy skills and they can flat out jam.............I'm saying, if they REALLY judged according to the rules they set down and hand out to dancers...........you'd see alot of people that normally DON'T place, actually placing. I think it'd only make for a better contest, it'd only make the so-called "winners" out there wake up and realize, "HEY!!! I'd better hustle my tookus out there and dance if I wanna win this thing!!"
                      Dang Mr. Jo Bangles. LOL. You always cut to the point. Anywayz things seem like their going the same for you huh?

                      By the way this is Potawatomi_Azhe'ni

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Gawwwwwwww

                        sounds like some sore losers out there. This is exactly what I teach my son NOT to be like. Powwowing, contests, are exactly what it is. Not every thing and every one is not going to be the same all around the states or even canada. There are powwows everywhere that people will say are 'fixed' etc. But I can detest for a fact the the State Fair was not fixed cuz my lil one placed there only due to the fact he danced his *** off and no one there was related to him or me. There are dancers that won because of their ability to dance and ability to make the Grand Entries, spot checks, etc.

                        I used to think alot like alot of you do, really pressin on how the contests are fixed, etc. But ya know, ya just have to accept it and dance because you like too. Be proud of the fact that you danced your heart out and made an impression out there on someone. These little ones are always watching and admiring every one of you but if you show them these 'why not me' or the blame game attitudes then they will grow up the exact same ways. These kids learn from dancers and their elder peers on how to act in the arena and out.

                        We're suppose to be out there dancing for other reasons not money, fame, or placing. Yes, it is nice to win or place once in a while but we all know that is a chance we ALL take when we register. I know my son is not going to place everywhere. But I am teaching him to be a humble loser and not blame everyone else either. He does cry sometimes when he does not place but I just keep teaching him that its not about winning or placing every time you powwow. I am very proud of him because I know deep in my heart he is a good dancer and will be when he grows up. I tell him every day how much pride I have in him and that alone satisfies him the most.
                        You have crossed my path, You will never be forgotten......


                        EMAIL ME for GON 2014 Special Hotel, Air, and Car Rates...limited availability. Powwow special rates across the US and Canada. I also offer great vacation, business, and specialty fares to every destination in the world! Email for the rates
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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nezbah
                          ....sounds like some sore losers out there. This is exactly what I teach my son NOT to be like. .... There are powwows everywhere that people will say are 'fixed' etc. But I can detest for a fact the the State Fair was not fixed cuz my lil one placed there only due to the fact he danced his *** off and no one there was related to him or me. There are dancers that won because of their ability to dance and ability to make the Grand Entries, spot checks, etc.

                          I used to think alot like alot of you do, really pressin on how the contests are fixed, etc. But ya know, ya just have to accept it .....

                          Mr. Bo J, (dang I almost typed Bo Little Elk) *L



                          WELL??????
                          Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            having a pow wow that strictly states "drugs and alcohol are not allowed" and then having winners who indulge in this stuff is an obvious sign of a fixed pow wow....especially when they show up for the pow wow the next day with beer breath or blood shot eyes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              My policy is "just dance".

                              If ya win, ya win. It's a bonus.

                              Most people say they should have judges that are dancers. Why? Why should they be dancers? Yeah, the answer is........... because they've been dancing a long time and know what to look for. That's right. Absolutely right.
                              But............ I've been arena director/head judge at a lotta places. The judges that I select are about 50/50 dancers and non-dancers. Most of the time, the scorecards are identical or pretty close. Whaddya make of that?

                              Anyways, most powwows are "not" fixed. Ya just hafta dance and accept the outcome. That's all.

                              Comment

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