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  • Rights to Jingle?

    If someone makes and sells a jingle dress, are they also giving the right for the buyer - to wear and dance in that dress?

    If you buy a jingle dress, do you automatically have the right to jingle dress dance?

    What if the dress maker is not Anishinabe Kwe?

    Does it matter?
    Last edited by WhoMe; 10-06-2005, 10:51 AM.
    Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

  • #2
    Good Question.

    I have often wondered that same question , I have read and heard many a heated debate on this subject and both seem to have good points. Some would say selling the dress to people would give them the rite because they paid for the dress then i question do you have to have a certain "rite" to make this dress?in order to sell it can get quite confusing. I also think of all the wonderful dancers that dance this stile who are not of this nation ,nor know anything about maybe needing the rite to wear this special dress and dance in it the way it was meant for. I am not of the nation from wich this way of dancing comes from but I have been studing for five going on six years and a dress was made for me by a woman of that nation but Im not confertable in my heart to dance until she and i both feal it is time. Then I will have a give-away the first time i wear my dress that is what has been asked of me but in no way am i saying that is the way it has to be done im just going by what she has asked of me.
    I got a fevah! And the only cure is more cowbell!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Eagle Plumes
      I have often wondered that same question , I have read and heard many a heated debate on this subject and both seem to have good points. Some would say selling the dress to people would give them the rite because they paid for the dress then i question do you have to have a certain "rite" to make this dress?in order to sell it can get quite confusing. I also think of all the wonderful dancers that dance this stile who are not of this nation ,nor know anything about maybe needing the rite to wear this special dress and dance in it the way it was meant for. I am not of the nation from wich this way of dancing comes from but I have been studing for five going on six years and a dress was made for me by a woman of that nation but Im not confertable in my heart to dance until she and i both feal it is time. Then I will have a give-away the first time i wear my dress that is what has been asked of me but in no way am i saying that is the way it has to be done im just going by what she has asked of me.

      I agree. It is a good question. One that warrants some serious debate.


      Anybody else?
      Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is the same vein as when we discussed whether ribbonwork dresses should be sold by people that do are not of the tribes that wear them. LOL
        Touchy subject, very sensitive. All I can answer for is my own experience with our right to wear this dress and it included a feed, a prayer, a ceremony and a strict code by which to carry on this dress and this dance. My daughters and I were given our dresses, so I have never made one or sold one, but I did ask someone to make one for my baby girl but only after she received her first dress.
        My answer would be no, buying a dress does not mean you have paid for your rights to dance that style.
        I am thankful for my grandparents, my parents, my brothers, my aunties and uncles, my children, my companion and all of those who influenced me to be strong and proud of being who I am and where I come from. Knowledge is power

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sltate
          This is the same vein as when we discussed whether ribbonwork dresses should be sold by people that do are not of the tribes that wear them. LOL
          Touchy subject, very sensitive. All I can answer for is my own experience with our right to wear this dress and it included a feed, a prayer, a ceremony and a strict code by which to carry on this dress and this dance. My daughters and I were given our dresses, so I have never made one or sold one, but I did ask someone to make one for my baby girl but only after she received her first dress.
          My answer would be no, buying a dress does not mean you have paid for your rights to dance that style.
          .
          Last edited by Roobz; 09-20-2008, 08:58 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            same here.

            When im finally ready we will have a feed giveaway and a prayer, that is what is being asked of me from the kind woman who gifted me with my dress. But on another note I have talked to gals that have liked that stile and made a dress without any special guidence but that they say they make sure to always dance with dignity and respect that is expcted of a Jingle dress dancer. And try to follow the teachings they have learned from others by obseving. Now is that still considered wrong by some ? since they are tring to do the rite thing ,it has to be a little better than those just wanting to dance that way cause it looks cool. Just a thought.
            I got a fevah! And the only cure is more cowbell!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              If a person wants to be wealthy.....


              So they lease a car, house and travel on credit cards... Then they observe the habits of a the rich and famous and imitate them.....


              Does this make them wealthy?



              (P.S. some of us know people like that!! *L)
              Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

              Comment


              • #8
                Buying a dress give you rights?? No.

                People are going to do what they are going to do. Not saying that's right. But how are we going to police and make people accountable if they had no clue and total disregard? We can't. People have to be open and have believe in the dress for it to work. Those that do.........know better and won't do that.

                To me it's kind of like owning a rosary......if you don't believe in what it means and stands for....... it's just a trinket.........meaningless. Does that mean they have disrespected ever catholic in the world by owing it? Naw..... just makes them ignorant ...... what can you do about that? Teach them the hail Mary's and all? It still would be meaning less. Only thing I can do is look after myself and mine. Now if someone asks for someone to help...........then that's a whole different matter!

                Kind of reminds me the great debate about the chanupa and people making and selling those. If a person that does not do things in a traditional way........ and to top it off sells it .... where is the power in that? Isn't it just a hunk of junk then? Sure......it may have symbolic meaning to some........ but as for the real power.......it would be dead..... just another rock.
                "We see it as a desecration not only of a mountain but of our way of life. This is a genocidal issue to us. If they kill this mountain, they kill our way of life." ~Debra White Plume

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think I thought too much.... lol

                  I waited a while to respond so I could marinate on them (the questions). My answer's no... buying one doesn't give the right. But I'd have to ask, the right to what? The dance? The power in the dance? To be able to dance? I'm not Anishnabe so I can't speak with authority, but I can share a little bit of my personal experience. I was once told that my dress means nothing because I'm not Anishnabe. When I heard this I was taken aback... "WHO are YOU to tell me that my dress doesn't mean anything?", I said (in a remarkably calm ) tone. I thought"That dress and dancing healed me, gave my father strength when he was urinating bone fragments and when his nerves began to poke out through openings in his bones(multiple myeloma, a god-awful type of bone cancer), and touched people so much that they approached and shook my hand. I can attest to what this dance, this dress, and it's teachings have done for me, for my life, for my heart." He said,"You aren't Anishnabe so your dress don't mean squat." I said,"Ok.... sooooo all the jingling Cherokees, Chickasaws, Navajos, Lakotas, Seminoles, Choctaws, Lummis, Crees, and so on.... their dresses mean nothing? Or is it just mine? When we pray it means nothing?" He went on to explain that because I'm not Nish, my dress and dancing doesn't have the same meaning or same effect... that the power is different. To me that was food for thought. I don't know what my opinion is as of yet. I just know that my prayers are heard. I am Cherokee and althought this is not our dance, I am soooooo very thankful for it. I went through ALOT for my dress. Not just the physical aspect... but alot of spiritual tests. It didn't come easy. But if it had,,,,, would I respect it just the same?
                  SHAKE IT!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    To Singing Otter,
                    I have read your message with interest. Yes, I noticed girls from other tribes doing a jingle dance even though it is not their dance. I am aware that it originated with the Chippewa tribe up north.

                    But like other girls, I fell in love with jingle dancing. The calling of the drum is very powerful. And it just pulled me to that drum. It made me want to dance, too. How can you say no to beautiful sounds of the drum that touched your heart?

                    I was not raised in my native bloodline even though I was taken to a pow wow when I was 3 years old, thanks to my stepdad who was born in France and had a strong interest in native history.

                    I get my native blood from my real dad's side of the family. One of my great-grandmothers was the daughter of the chief.
                    I was barely aware of my native heritage while I was growing up. My tribal heritage is Pamunkey and Mattapony and I have a deep appreciation for native cultures even tho I am not enrolled with these 2 tribes that I just mentioned.

                    My first cousin is enrolled Ogala Sioux and direct descendant of Sitting Bull. He grew up dancing pow wows in Chicago. I did intertribal shawl friendship dances.

                    I also collect drum groups CDs. My favorite was "White Eagle".
                    I am very fond of jingle dancing. Every chance I get, I just watch and listen and my feet jingle, too.

                    Windy
                    =================

                    Originally posted by Singing Otter
                    I waited a while to respond so I could marinate on them (the questions). My answer's no... buying one doesn't give the right. But I'd have to ask, the right to what? The dance? The power in the dance? To be able to dance? I'm not Anishnabe so I can't speak with authority, but I can share a little bit of my personal experience. I was once told that my dress means nothing because I'm not Anishnabe. When I heard this I was taken aback... "WHO are YOU to tell me that my dress doesn't mean anything?", I said (in a remarkably calm ) tone. I thought"That dress and dancing healed me, gave my father strength when he was urinating bone fragments and when his nerves began to poke out through openings in his bones(multiple myeloma, a god-awful type of bone cancer), and touched people so much that they approached and shook my hand. I can attest to what this dance, this dress, and it's teachings have done for me, for my life, for my heart." He said,"You aren't Anishnabe so your dress don't mean squat." I said,"Ok.... sooooo all the jingling Cherokees, Chickasaws, Navajos, Lakotas, Seminoles, Choctaws, Lummis, Crees, and so on.... their dresses mean nothing? Or is it just mine? When we pray it means nothing?" He went on to explain that because I'm not Nish, my dress and dancing doesn't have the same meaning or same effect... that the power is different. To me that was food for thought. I don't know what my opinion is as of yet. I just know that my prayers are heard. I am Cherokee and althought this is not our dance, I am soooooo very thankful for it. I went through ALOT for my dress. Not just the physical aspect... but alot of spiritual tests. It didn't come easy. But if it had,,,,, would I respect it just the same?
                    Last edited by jinglefeather; 11-15-2005, 12:53 AM.
                    undefinedAny problem or challenge in life is a blessing because it gives you the experience and wisdom that will useful to you later. Be of good cheer always!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Singing Otter
                      I waited a while to respond so I could marinate on them (the questions). My answer's no... buying one doesn't give the right. But I'd have to ask, the right to what? The dance? The power in the dance? To be able to dance? I'm not Anishnabe so I can't speak with authority, but I can share a little bit of my personal experience. I was once told that my dress means nothing because I'm not Anishnabe. When I heard this I was taken aback... "WHO are YOU to tell me that my dress doesn't mean anything?", I said (in a remarkably calm ) tone. I thought"That dress and dancing healed me, gave my father strength when he was urinating bone fragments and when his nerves began to poke out through openings in his bones(multiple myeloma, a god-awful type of bone cancer), and touched people so much that they approached and shook my hand. I can attest to what this dance, this dress, and it's teachings have done for me, for my life, for my heart." He said,"You aren't Anishnabe so your dress don't mean squat." I said,"Ok.... sooooo all the jingling Cherokees, Chickasaws, Navajos, Lakotas, Seminoles, Choctaws, Lummis, Crees, and so on.... their dresses mean nothing? Or is it just mine? When we pray it means nothing?" He went on to explain that because I'm not Nish, my dress and dancing doesn't have the same meaning or same effect... that the power is different. To me that was food for thought. I don't know what my opinion is as of yet. I just know that my prayers are heard. I am Cherokee and althought this is not our dance, I am soooooo very thankful for it. I went through ALOT for my dress. Not just the physical aspect... but alot of spiritual tests. It didn't come easy. But if it had,,,,, would I respect it just the same?
                      I'm with you girl. Although no one has told me (to my face) that my dress means nothing, I still dance jingle. Alot of good has come out of it. So many people have thanked me for doing this style. It has uplifted them emotionally and physically and it makes me happy that I have made them fell better.
                      Don't ever stop dancing

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As long as you know the history, the story, the responsibility, the purpose and the power of the dress then you have the right to dance and wear it.. I don't think that you have to be Aanishnabe Kwe... I am not and no one ever tested me.
                        ~Kelli
                        If you lose the drum beat of the creator, you are lost in life - Aanishnabe

                        You say I don't look indian? Well you don't look stupid, but looks can be deceiving!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I heard from the mc at mesa pow-wow here in az that the jingle dress wasn't for medicinal value that it was used for comp dancing here. So it leaves me confused as to it's meaning today.Is it just a misinformed mc or is the dress not medicinal any longer?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by azshinob
                            I heard from the mc at mesa pow-wow here in az that the jingle dress wasn't for medicinal value that it was used for comp dancing here. So it leaves me confused as to it's meaning today.Is it just a misinformed mc or is the dress not medicinal any longer?

                            "See what happens when one tribe's tradition is interpreted by another tribe?


                            Not makin' a value judgement. Just stating what happens....."
                            Powwows will continue to evolve in many directions. It is inevitable.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In this instance, how much of that (potential misinformation---for lack of better words. sorry.) is on the individual emcee?
                              SHAKE IT!!!!

                              Comment

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