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Rights to Jingle?

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  • #16
    holay cow who me now thats what i say an awsome question..(im not being sarcastic-fyi) but this is just an opinion i was alwasy taught that you should never lend , buy a jingle dress...you should make your own because it comes from you ...i think that it would make the dress less personal if you buy it...but then again i understand not everyone knows how to sew or even has the money for a swing machine so they rely on others but then i figure if you cant afford a basic sewing machine thenyou cant afford to buy a jingle dress ...and also if you dont know how to sew well then its the best time to learn...so in a way there shouldnt be excuses..and if someone cant put in the time to make a jingle dress because their schedule is so busy then have someone guide you to take less time to do it..so in all theres no excuses for not making your own jingle dress..many ppl despite all the odds have always found time or a way to personally make their dress..

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    • #17
      Originally posted by azshinob
      I heard from the mc at mesa pow-wow here in az that the jingle dress wasn't for medicinal value that it was used for comp dancing here. So it leaves me confused as to it's meaning today.Is it just a misinformed mc or is the dress not medicinal any longer?
      I heard that guy too... I don't know where he's from, he kept saying Ojibwe words though, I don't know if he was Ojib or not.

      Anyway, he may have been speaking from a AZ point of view that the dress is used for strictly competition here in AZ. And that is true, I mean, this is not the homeland of the jingle dress so really, can you expect any more?

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      • #18
        Thinking along those lines than it would be allright for the northern tribes to have sand painting, kachina making contests? What's to come next pipe making/ smoking contests? In my heart i think if you borrow another nations dance you should be willing to respect it, not use it for financial gains.

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        • #19
          I think I said this in another post somewhere...


          But what if some Ojibwe lady started to dance southern cloth or souther buckskin, or another southwestern dance. i think those tribes would have a few words to say to her if they knew she was Ojib dancing that style.
          I dont know. If they only use a jingle dress just to win at powwows and show off, thats really too bad.
          I think its OK when they get rights the right way and if they respect the real meaning of the dress.
          Ok im done.
          Last edited by Mr Oakley; 01-13-2006, 01:30 PM.
          Mr Oakley was here

          see my powwow videos here...
          www.youtube.com/oaklee84

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          • #20
            There lies the question, If a Dance style is given respect, than someone who is drawn to that style should take the steps to enter into it. The originator of the dance style meant for it to heal. ( I guess healing of the pocket book is ok then) I just have a problem with those that dance jingle only for contests, not for the people as intended.

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            • #21
              Hey yall,

              I just started reading this thread with interest, and I have a couple of points to make. I am Anishinaabe, but I am not the expert here so if I am wrong about something, then someone please poke and prod me to the right direction here.

              I am a fancy dancer, and yet I am not Ponca. Does that not make me a fancy dancer? I made my entire outfit, learned the moves and whatnot, and commenced the dancing. I dance with a good heart, and I go a little against the grain (red and black are not exactly bright and flashy)

              As far as I am concerned, this style of dance is a form of medicine. Just like any other kind of medicine if it is not done right or is disrespected, then it will backfire on that person.

              I once gave tobacco to a Mide and asked for my name. He took that and prayed over it for several months before comming back to me with that. He later did some irrational things down here and a lot of people here mistrusted him (not me) I asked a spiritual man up north on the rez later, then if my name had meaning, because it seemed like this guy was off his rocker. He told me that if all was done in traditional ways, and that tobacco was given, then I have to believe in the power of that tobacco, and the name that was given to me was mine it didnt matter who I asked for it.

              I believe. I know this jingler down here, Maya (I am sorry girl I dont know how to spell it) and she is Cherokee. Around 4 years ago I asked her to jingle for my dad, who had a pretty bad stroke. Last time I saw him before that pow wow he was unconscious in a hospital bed. So I went to that pow wow cause that was all I could do for my dad, to dance and pray, and then I saw Maya there. I found out very quickly what I had to do to get that special, I went to every length that I had to and quickly.

              The special was done and the blanket was handed back to me, and ladies on the way out also put their prayers and blessings into it for my dad. I slept that night and returned to the hospital the next day. I found my dad awake but unable to speak or move too much. I put that blanket on him, and me and my mom and aunt went downstairs to get lunch. We were gone only 30 minutes or so, but when we got back, my dad was halfway down the hall, walking, cussing and yelling at the nurses that he was getting the heck outta that hospital.

              Did she buy that dress? No I dont think so I think she and her mother made it. Did she earn the right to wear and dance it by joining the society? I dont know. What I do know is that Maya is one of the most beautiful people I have ever met, she jingles well and as good as any Anishinaabe jingler I met onthe rez. Everytime I see her at a pow wow I look forward to her goin out there and dancing her style, and I feel proud as an Anishinaabe that our dance is represented that well down here if Florida.

              This is my opinion on the whole thing. I dont care what tribe a young lady comes from, if she bought a dress, made it or was gifted it, exactly what her steps are, or even what color her skin is... If she has the goodness in her heart to do something like this and carry this medicine in a good way then she has earned the right to dance this style. I believe, and it worked.

              Derek
              I believe in something I want to believe, not what someone wants me to believe.

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              • #22
                rights 2 jingle?

                i'm with the other girls, i see some girls that dance jingle,tradish,fancy and most of the time their just competing,but still,i think if it makes you feel good and other's around you then you have the right,even if you didn't make your own dress. dance from your heart
                Youngest Jingles the shy one

                "dance all your life, just don't be a dancer all your life"

                -no one can hold me back except me-

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                • #23
                  Ahow, chi boozhoo Anishnabek

                  Its been a long time since i've been to powwows and I always come to our Jingle Dress forum when I'm here. This is interesting.

                  My appreciation to WhoMe who always puts up very good discussions. LOL. He gets us going in the forums!

                  Back to the topic. Every woman who dances with our Jingle Dress is beautiful in their own way. I would like to believe that every one of those dancers respect the dress in their own way also. However, being Anishnabe Ikwe we truly understand there are certain things we MUST do before putting our dress on. In some cases, some of us are instructed to fast, but we always have a feast and prayer (to put it quite generally). Because someone buys a dress from wherever does not give that person the REAL right to dance with it. Although that person may dance to their heart's content, there is still that most important aspect that is missing. That spiritual side of our Dress that we believe has got to be done before wearing it. It then, is just a dress without the true spirit of healing. A dress that is misinterpreted. I am sorry, but some jinglers may as well put on a shawl while dancing :|. Don't get me wrong, I (and I am sure I can speak for my Anishnabe sisters as well) am proud of every one who wears our dress for the simple fact that I know we are the true owners but at the same time it leaves me a little sad because many dresses lack that true healing spirit, the reason why it was given to us in the first place. :|

                  Hey Ruby apije miigwetch for your mention of me. Giigawabamin minawa, nagaaj.

                  Mii-awe
                  "Gaa wiin daa-aangoshkigaazo ahaw enaabiyaan gaa-inaabid"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ojibwaysweetie
                    Ahow, chi boozhoo Anishnabek

                    Its been a long time since i've been to powwows and I always come to our Jingle Dress forum when I'm here. This is interesting.

                    My appreciation to WhoMe who always puts up very good discussions. LOL. He gets us going in the forums!

                    Back to the topic. Every woman who dances with our Jingle Dress is beautiful in their own way. I would like to believe that every one of those dancers respect the dress in their own way also. However, being Anishnabe Ikwe we truly understand there are certain things we MUST do before putting our dress on. In some cases, some of us are instructed to fast, but we always have a feast and prayer (to put it quite generally). Because someone buys a dress from wherever does not give that person the REAL right to dance with it. Although that person may dance to their heart's content, there is still that most important aspect that is missing. That spiritual side of our Dress that we believe has got to be done before wearing it. It then, is just a dress without the true spirit of healing. A dress that is misinterpreted. I am sorry, but some jinglers may as well put on a shawl while dancing :|. Don't get me wrong, I (and I am sure I can speak for my Anishnabe sisters as well) am proud of every one who wears our dress for the simple fact that I know we are the true owners but at the same time it leaves me a little sad because many dresses lack that true healing spirit, the reason why it was given to us in the first place. :|

                    Hey Ruby apije miigwetch for your mention of me. Giigawabamin minawa, nagaaj.

                    Mii-awe
                    I would never think of dancing in a jingle dress.lol

                    I just want to say it's posts like this one that make my heart feel good.

                    Good words, ojibwaysweetie.


                    Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


                    "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

                    Mr. Rossie Freeman

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                    • #25
                      <<<Around 4 years ago I asked her to jingle formy dad, who had a pretty bad stroke........I found out very quickly what I had to do to get a that special, I went to every length that I had to and quickly.>>>


                      Can a person jingle for their own healing, not necessarily medical healing- but healing from all mess that may be going on in their personal life? I've been wanting to jingle for a very long time, I'm 50 years and thought I was too old, but have since been told that I'm not too old. Anyway... I've made an outfit, but I'm not quite ready to come out yet. When I'm alone at home, I'll put on CD with jingle dance songs and jingle in my living room. I always feel so good afterward. My tears are gone and the world looks bright again. I don't know if this is the jingle dress or the endorphines from the exercise.
                      Does the jingle dress ever heal the dancer?
                      Last edited by Sheila; 01-15-2006, 10:14 PM.
                      Sheila

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                      • #26
                        My opinion

                        I see it like this.......
                        You do not have a right, because originally it was intended for sacred ceremonies and only certain people are allowed to dance in that dress. There is a meaning behind it. At a powwow it's different, you're not there to heal anyone. As long as you dance with respect in mind and don't confuse powwow with ceremonial reasons, I think it's okay. It's hard to say for sure. That is being general about it though.

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                        • #27
                          Sweetie, & CW make good points about the wearing and use of the dress. I've seen a good solution to the situation on another thread, 2 dresses one for ceremonies the other for pow wows. Those that want/feel to dance in the jingle style would be able to do so. As long as the songs used at pow wows aren't ceremonial.

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                          • #28
                            dont be a wannabe

                            wow!, I never knew it was such a big issue. I have always wanted to jingle dance, but I never felt comfortable about having someone teach me bc I am not Aneshnabe. but for those who jingle and are not Ogibway, who are really good, I think they are beautiful besides what anyone says. I dont understand why we are segregating ourselves from each other. I think we should all just go after all those damn hobbiests!
                            ??Aayooish K'ei chah??

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ojibwaysweetie

                              Hey Ruby apije miigwetch for your mention of me. Giigawabamin minawa, nagaaj.

                              Mii-awe

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                              • #30
                                my 2 cents

                                well i half navajo and half ojibwe and i dance jingle...i think that it should be ok to let girls from other tribes dance jingle and everything like that but if there is a competion old school then the girls should have at least some clue of what they are doing...i mean i go to a pow wow every year in new mexico and they usually have a old style jingle and a lto of the girls have contemp stlye outfits and they had my mom explain tha dress cuase the mc said that the dressed was made for the native women to mock those flapper girls,.....

                                and alot of the girls that were out there suppose to being doing old style were dancing like fancy girls....i mean i don't really know but they should just now the real meaning of the dress before they put it on.....
                                i mean i had to go through cerimonies befor i could dance jingle....




                                and that is just my 2 cents on tha situation....
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