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  • #16
    Well, what I know of the "First Lady of Jingle Dress" is that it started in Minnesota near Mille Lacs. (If anyone knows of that story, I'd like to read.) But, the swinging of the arms was just to be fancy. And squaw dances (side step) were around before this dress. I didn't know of this Maggie White, who claims the origin, because I'm not from that community. All I'm trying to get across is that some people shouldn't be saying that their traditional beliefs are the "right way". White Fish Bay isn't the only Chippewa community. And no ONE community has the same traditional beliefs. I don't think that anyone should say that they have a right to tell what's "traditional" or not, because a lot of the traditions that tribes have now have been altered in some way.
    ~if ya got it... flaunt it~

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    • #17
      LMAO at that last post.......... ha ha...
      anyways. Its not something to debate, everyone who knows ANYTHING about Powwow and the jingle dress knows that its not a theory but a fact that the jingle dress does come from WhiteFishBay Ontario. Jeez woman, live up to that name you have there, if you dont know about something dont try talkin like as if you do know what your saying then getting defensive about it.

      "Who the hell is this Maggie White...... just wondering, because everyone's pretty set on saying that "she really knows what's she's doing."
      "I didn't know of this Maggie White, who claims the origin,..."

      Come on now, get real. Have some respect for those who have passed on.
      NO MY EYES REALLY DONT LOOK LIKE THAT........ THATS ME AS A BRATZ DOLL ;)

      http://pages.ivillage.com/sagkeengpowwow2003/

      Some guys are good with their drum sticks.... and some just arent...:karate:

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      • #18
        I used to love watching Maggie White dance. She really enjoyed herself. And as for some of these women/girls dancing jingle today- they could have learned a thing or two from her example. And to those showing disrespect to Maggie White and her family- your Ma is just raisin' you WRONG! Your homes must have been ICW's FAVORITE stop!;)
        tuck & roll

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        • #19
          Ok lets see, there is two version of the story. I grew up hearing both of them but since i have relatives in WFB and i am from Mille Lacs. i do know what i know about the jingle dress from both sides but if u dont know who Maggie is then hmm i guess u dont know the origin of the dress. As for swinging of the arms if one went to Mille Lacs during the ceremonial dances and in the evening during the 'ladies Dance' we do what we do and when they dance the 'ladies song they would have a good time and they would swing their arms and dance in time with the drum.' but in order to understand swinging of the arms u might wanna check it out. As for some dancers just doing that for the sake of their own style ZZZZZ they seen someone else (Tara) do it at hinckley then next pow-wow they started doing it so on and so forth. but lots of people do act like they know everything about the dance and style go to the WFB site and read and listen maybe people will start to understand but changing of the story and people wanting something they totally dont understand will always change the story to suit there needs. I definitely not saying what i know is godsend but i know what i have been taught and some of things people say are the watered down version or this version that version. but times change and so do people and how stories are told unfortunetly. As people anishinabe we should try to keep the correct version alive and not the one i heard recently at a pow-wow where we dance outside our wigwams waving white hankies dancing in out jingle dress. isaid hmmm thats a new one but that is how stories change with time and it is interesting but i wish some people could watch these video types we have of Maggie. but some people just dont know but like i said before this is my opinion my lessons and just that what i been taught the other ladies from WFB were raised and taught differently from what i was being from Mille Lacs. just my thoughts all
          "In the depths of a mind insane
          Fantasy and reality are the same"
          - SLAYER

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          • #20
            I agree with sweet. :Yell And as for the ones in those fluorescent (sp) bright colored dresses...give it up! That's WAY too much. :devil
            tuck & roll

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            • #21
              imho i think it is where you grew up that influences jingle dress....back in the 80's when i started dancing jingle there were no young girls dancing jingle! it was fun to bring back a style that almost was lost...i really appreciate that there are so many now..i emulated my auntie that was a champion from Ponemah..she was my favorite..i didn't know anyone else that danced jingle..she always came to our powwows..as to the arm swinging..it depends on you..they didn't have fancy fans back than..just the dress..my auntie didn't wear leggings just her moccasins and dress..so there is no one person that brought up the jingle dress...it was here in Inger for a long time back when they had horse and buggies to go to powwows..

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              • #22
                I was at the red lake pow wow when Maggie white passed on...I remember feeling sorrow and pain...i also remember the pow wow comittee asking for a healing song for the family. it really was a beautiful sight to see and hear all them jingles on beat, they all danced just about the same back then. I was a young girl but i remember alot about that old mindi, i remember her always enjoying herself, having fun...she also was kind of ruthless on the dance floor, she would dance the way she felt and you could see it, you could feel it. Yet growing up, it was to my understanding of the dress that it came to the Ojibwe people in our time of need. Our need of healing, the dress was sent from the creator to heal his people, his beloved indians the ones who were the keepers of the faith, us Ojibwe. Though there are several claims to this famous dress there is but one origin, the creator, gitchi manido, gitchi manitou, god, what ever your call him he is the one who created this dress, we jingle dress dancers are mearly instruments, or benificiaries of this great healing that the creator has bestowed upon us. It really hurts to see that we are fighting over this dress the dress that was meant to heal. Although we (canadians and Us Ojibs) are seprerated by a border does not mean we have a seperate creator. As for the arm swinging thing, I had jingles on my arms, and i was taught to make sure that all my jingles dance, so I moved my arms to make sure all my jingles danced. plain and simple. Had i not of had any jingles on my arms, hands would have stayed on my hips.
                There can only be 2 moccasins on your feet at one time...however life has given me many pair...along with a needle, thread and really sharp teeth to cut with...lmao


                http://www.myspace.com/anty_tweeb

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                • #23
                  i was waiting for you, and i knew you would have the right words bows to Ms. T.J. :D but i was thinking when we went to Oklahoma back in 86 or was 87 and people were almost hmmm cant say scared but like they didnt know what to think of when my sis danced in her dress. One given to her by i think it was native flutter by's mom. It made us proud we were able to see her dancing and at the same to see how people reacted. sheesh sounds just old lol. Me, i'm not trying to argue about it just was trying to let people know please understand the history of the dress before u start judging others and yes u need to get ur jingles where ever they may be except on ur forehead lol to get moving to the drum. sometimes some people worry to much about foot work and not paying much to how ur jingle sound with the drum. one doesnt need to watch but if listen u can hear who is on time with the drum and u can hear who isnt then take a glance and u can see what ur hearing. but then thats what i was taught. laters all again my two cents.
                  "In the depths of a mind insane
                  Fantasy and reality are the same"
                  - SLAYER

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by sweetkwe69
                    sometimes some people worry to much about foot work and not paying much to how ur jingle sound with the drum.

                    Right on! ;) I only got one anyway and nobody ain't gettin much fancy footwork outta me. :p lol :Chatter
                    SHAKE IT!!!!

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                    • #25
                      Chi Miigwetch flutterby for your post and like sweektwe said I was waitin too cuz I knew u'd have the right words. Everything you said was so right on....and I agree it is sad to see people fightin over the dress when what you said it was given to us by the creator is totally right and I think sometimes people lose sight of that and forget that when they speak of the jingle dress. Again mii gwetch :)

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                      • #26
                        Oh man I'm kinda reluctant to be saying this but....I think it needs to be heard by all of you and perhaps the rest of the world. What Im about to say might actually make you think twice about what you know about the jingle dress and the story behind it.
                        So please......let me speak. I'm not here to say you all are wrong about the jingle dress. I'm here to offer another story regarding the dress.
                        OK...

                        It may seem to you all that Maggie White was the first lady of the jingle dress......but if you were to talk to certain elders from our area, those older than the "sons" of Maggie then you might hear a different story. The jingle dress had been around for nearly a hundred years before Maggie White started dancing in her dress. The Jingle Dress did not originate in Whitefish Bay either, it came from a near by reserve south of WFB. The songs for the jingle dress came from Whitefish Bay, but the dress itself originated in the near by reserve many, many years before Maggie WHite was even born.
                        However, for awhile the Jingle Dress ceremonies had almost died out in the late 1800s and early 1900s until Maggies grandfather had the exact same dream as the original dream that started the Jingle Dress.
                        Maggie White was not the first lady of the Jingle Dress, she simply revived the dance in the exact same manner as it was originally started.
                        The dress never originated from Whitefish Bay, only the ceremonial songs for the dress came from Whitefish Bay.

                        I have spoken to very reliable sources regarding this topic. There actually is a silent opposition to the stories told by the Whitefish Bay Singers, especially the older singers who were the original singers.

                        This may seem as though Maggie White is an intended target of humiliation on my behalf. This is not true, she deserves the credit of "reviving" the dance. But she wasnt the first.

                        Meegwetch

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                        • #27
                          P.S. regarding the swinging of the arms. That sorta thing has been around for awhile but its not the "original" style of the dance. Like Zhoonagiz said.....it was during those fast round dances would the women swing their arms to help keep up with the pace of the drum. It was also just for the fun of it. BUt....it was never part of the original style of the jingle dress.


                          thats my two cents!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by native_flutterby
                            I was at the red lake pow wow when Maggie white passed on...I remember feeling sorrow and pain...i also remember the pow wow comittee asking for a healing song for the family. it really was a beautiful sight to see and hear all them jingles on beat, they all danced just about the same back then. I was a young girl but i remember alot about that old mindi, i remember her always enjoying herself, having fun...she also was kind of ruthless on the dance floor, she would dance the way she felt and you could see it, you could feel it. Yet growing up, it was to my understanding of the dress that it came to the Ojibwe people in our time of need. Our need of healing, the dress was sent from the creator to heal his people, his beloved indians the ones who were the keepers of the faith, us Ojibwe. Though there are several claims to this famous dress there is but one origin, the creator, gitchi manido, gitchi manitou, god, what ever your call him he is the one who created this dress, we jingle dress dancers are mearly instruments, or benificiaries of this great healing that the creator has bestowed upon us. It really hurts to see that we are fighting over this dress the dress that was meant to heal. Although we (canadians and Us Ojibs) are seprerated by a border does not mean we have a seperate creator. As for the arm swinging thing, I had jingles on my arms, and i was taught to make sure that all my jingles dance, so I moved my arms to make sure all my jingles danced. plain and simple. Had i not of had any jingles on my arms, hands would have stayed on my hips.
                            Good words, and way to go with that:) I like how you speak:)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Hey Ms. T.J.,

                              Get your mom and aunties to say what they think! I really think that they were instrumental in keeping the Jingle dress alive when it was dying out in the 70's and 80's. They were and still are my heros. They had a wicked team dance back in the day. I remeber dancing with them at Baraga when it was the first time that they had seen jingle Dress Dancers there. They are some very powerful women. What about all those elders from Ponemah and Cass that were totally grey-haired and still dancing, they were awesome.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                This pic was taken at the White Earth pow-wow in 1925.
                                Attached Files

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