Feasting and fasting

[cherokeemom06]

I have a couple of questions about feasting your dress. I was told to have venison, corn, beans, squash and wild rice. I was also told that for things like venison, you could just have a small piece for the spirit plate and then have something like a beef brisket for everyone to have as well as a small piece of venison if they want it. Does the preparation of the other items (well besides the rice of course) matter? We were planning on having those short ears of corn, baked beans and a pasta salad that had zucchini cut up in it. Then my sis is making fry bread as well.

Does that sound ok?

My second question is about fasting before your feast. Is it water only for 24 hours? Or can you have juice and such?

You girls have been really helpful and thanks for everything.

[Wojapi4Me]

I have a couple of questions about feasting your dress. I was told to have venison, corn, beans, squash and wild rice. I was also told that for things like venison, you could just have a small piece for the spirit plate and then have something like a beef brisket for everyone to have as well as a small piece of venison if they want it. Does the preparation of the other items (well besides the rice of course) matter? We were planning on having those short ears of corn, baked beans and a pasta salad that had zucchini cut up in it. Then my sis is making fry bread as well.

Does that sound ok?

My second question is about fasting before your feast. Is it water only for 24 hours? Or can you have juice and such?

You girls have been really helpful and thanks for everything.

Seems a little too spiritual to be discussing this on the internet...but, that's just me. Why not just ask the women you were talking to, hopefully in person and not online, about all of this to begin with and get their input?

[cherokeemom06]

I got all of their input but I just thought I would get a second opinion on it all. I'll just go by what they told me and leave it at that. The reason I wanted a second opinion was none of them are jingle dancers but are elders and very knowledgable and one of them just helped bring her granddaughter into the circle for jingle. I don't see these people very often (just at what powwows we're all able to get to) and they live hours from me so the internet is our best way of connecting talking. We talk plenty when we're together but sometimes there are things that we have to discuss via e-mail or IM because of time restraints.

I'm sorry for approachig this, as I am still learning what topics are off limits when it comes to public forums. A few of you ladies have helped me so much, I just thought I would seek another opinion.

[Wojapi4Me]

I didn't mean to come across as being mean, and if I did I sincerely apologize. I just didn't think that the topics were those that should be discussed on the internet in an open forum because there are many people out there looking for any shred of information like that to steal and use as their own.

My main point was...go to the source. If you're learning about jingle dress that would be Ojibwe Ikwe (sorry for my spelling it's its incorrect).

[cherokeemom06]

I have talked to Ojibwaysweetie a little bit about some of this but there just aren't many jingle dancers around here and the couple that I know of, I don't respect at all because they do not respect the dress or the reasons behind the dress. I even had someone go so far as to tell me, "Don't watch them. They do not do anything in the proper way and they are not what a jingle dancer should be." If you want more details, PM me, but I know at least once jingle dancer that will not even enter the arena for a jingle dance if these two are in the arena. I'm sorry, I'm rambling and gossiping, two things I don't need to do. I am simply explaining that I don't have any Ojibway dancers around here to personally talk to.

Oh and I understand about people gleaning information for themselves. I try to do my research and talk to people about what I need to know but sometimes there just aren't people there to talk to.

[Wojapi4Me]

I have talked to Ojibwaysweetie a little bit about some of this but there just aren't many jingle dancers around here and the couple that I know of, I don't respect at all because they do not respect the dress or the reasons behind the dress. I even had someone go so far as to tell me, "Don't watch them. They do not do anything in the proper way and they are not what a jingle dancer should be." If you want more details, PM me, but I know at least once jingle dancer that will not even enter the arena for a jingle dance if these two are in the arena. I'm sorry, I'm rambling and gossiping, two things I don't need to do. I am simply explaining that I don't have any Ojibway dancers around here to personally talk to.

Oh and I understand about people gleaning information for themselves. I try to do my research and talk to people about what I need to know but sometimes there just aren't people there to talk to.

So, you're taking the word of a non-Ojib person telling you that this real Ojibwe lady is not worthy of being a jingle dress dancer? Man, that sounds like the southeast!!

I wouldn't put much, if any, stock into "knowledge" that comes straight from Kentucy...not meaning to offend, but you go to the source...pure and simple.

[cherokeemom06]

So, you're taking the word of a non-Ojib person telling you that this real Ojibwe lady is not worthy of being a jingle dress dancer? Man, that sounds like the southeast!!

I wouldn't put much, if any, stock into "knowledge" that comes straight from Kentucy...not meaning to offend, but you go to the source...pure and simple.

No, no, no. You misunderstood me. The jingle dancer that she is referring to is not Ojibway. She lies about being a veteran and completely disregards the meaning and responsibilities of the dress. And the lady I heard this from is not from Kentucky. She is from northern Ohio and a very well respected member of the powwow circuit around here.

I know that around here the powwows aren't always exactly right and a lot of them are way too political, but you take what you can get. I wasn't lucky enough to be born into a family that lived in a traditional native way or even one that did little more than acknowledge that there was native heritage there. I am lucky enough however to have a fantastic "adopted family" that has taken me and love me and my family. Two of us are bringing our jingle dresses into the circle for the first time in the next couple of weeks and both of us made sure we were doing everything correctly. I was simply checking a detail.

I am not sure how this thread got to this, but I was simply questioning the menu for my feast. I didn't mean for this to happen. I guess I should have taken what I found out from the elders I know.

Once again, I'm sorry this thread took this turn. My apologies to anyone it may have offended.

[Wojapi4Me]

No, no, no. You misunderstood me. The jingle dancer that she is referring to is not Ojibway. She lies about being a veteran and completely disregards the meaning and responsibilities of the dress. And the lady I heard this from is not from Kentucky. She is from northern Ohio and a very well respected member of the powwow circuit around here.

I know that around here the powwows aren't always exactly right and a lot of them are way too political, but you take what you can get. I wasn't lucky enough to be born into a family that lived in a traditional native way or even one that did little more than acknowledge that there was native heritage there. I am lucky enough however to have a fantastic "adopted family" that has taken me and love me and my family. Two of us are bringing our jingle dresses into the circle for the first time in the next couple of weeks and both of us made sure we were doing everything correctly. I was simply checking a detail.

I am not sure how this thread got to this, but I was simply questioning the menu for my feast. I didn't mean for this to happen. I guess I should have taken what I found out from the elders I know.

Once again, I'm sorry this thread took this turn. My apologies to anyone it may have offended.

Well, I guess it's my fault and I apologize...just had some questions. Man, it seems everytime I have questions on pws.com the whole place blows up...

I sure didn't mean to offend you or anyone, but I guess I did so for that I'm sorry.

I think I'm outta here in every sense of the word...

[cherokeemom06]

I don't think it was your fault or my fault, just a combination of misunderstanding each other. The only thing that offended me was the comment about KY but I'm used to that. I went to California when I was about 15 and they asked why I had shoes on and how many kids I had. It's just the stereotypes around here. It truly was an innocent question in just asking about some specifics on my menu and I didn't mean to start a fight. Can we just let it drop and call a truce? I don't want to argue or defend myself. I do enough of that when I'm not on here.

[ojibwaysweetie]

Wojapi is right about speaking to your people in person. I have a problem understanding anyone getting all their info online. Fasting/feasting are ceremonies in itself.

About speaking to me about some things......I do draw a line. Some things I will share, some I won't and you are well aware of that, cherokee.

[cherokeemom06]

Wojapi is right about speaking to your people in person. I have a problem understanding anyone getting all their info online. Fasting/feasting are ceremonies in itself.

About speaking to me about some things......I do draw a line. Some things I will share, some I won't and you are well aware of that, cherokee.

Ojibwaysweetie, I know you will only share some things. I am very appreciative for what you have told me thus far and completely understand that you will not discuss some things. I have discussed quite a bit of things between you and Czechy and have met with Czechy in person. She is very sweet and has been so, so helpful. She actually is the one who taught me the basic steps. I honestly can't remember which bits of info I've gotten from you and from her. I haven't gotten all of my info online, by any means. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I have met with people and discussed this at length in person. They just haven't been Ojibway elders or jingle dancers, even though they know the protocols and such that go along with the jingle dress. As I said, I just want to do things right. I'm not Ojibway. I can't go to the rez and find my ancestors there because all of my family that was native refused to be enrolled. They were part of the group that fell off the trail of tears into the Appalachian Mts.

Thank you to everyone that has helped me and guided me along the way and for your support. I have met some wonderful people through this board and have gotten to be good friends with some of them. I'm sorry this thread started any doubt as to my intentions or my way of finding information.

[ojibwaysweetie]

Ojibwaysweetie, I know you will only share some things. I am very appreciative for what you have told me thus far and completely understand that you will not discuss some things. I have discussed quite a bit of things between you and Czechy and have met with Czechy in person. She is very sweet and has been so, so helpful. She actually is the one who taught me the basic steps. I honestly can't remember which bits of info I've gotten from you and from her. I haven't gotten all of my info online, by any means. I'm sorry if it came across that way. I have met with people and discussed this at length in person. They just haven't been Ojibway elders or jingle dancers, even though they know the protocols and such that go along with the jingle dress. As I said, I just want to do things right. I'm not Ojibway. I can't go to the rez and find my ancestors there because all of my family that was native refused to be enrolled. They were part of the group that fell off the trail of tears into the Appalachian Mts.

Thank you to everyone that has helped me and guided me along the way and for your support. I have met some wonderful people through this board and have gotten to be good friends with some of them. I'm sorry this thread started any doubt as to my intentions or my way of finding information.

I think it was WhoMe who said somewhere in this forum, that if you really want to learn about things, make the time to go to Ojibway territory and talk to elders. :) Ask questions to knowledgeable people face to face. This is a good tool here online to share info, but to actually learn about important ceremonial/feastings/fastings, I think you atta make some travel arrangements and physically go directly to the people who's way of life is such.

[cherokeemom06]

A trip like that is out of the question right now. I fought with my decision to start dancing jingle for this very reason but when my grandmother died of cancer, I had a dream that night and she is where my native heritage is. She told me to dance for her. I decided then and there to do it and have been working for over a year to learn to do everything properly.

I will make that trip someday but I can't wait years upon years to dance what my heart feels.

[ojibwaysweetie]

Just believe in those meant-to-be's. :)