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  • Can or Can't I?

    Hello everyone! I do not want to offend anyone or the dress or dance that you represent. I do however have a question. Would it be ok for me to go to the jingle dress dance? I want to dance this style, and have been wanting to for a while now. I just found out that someone is giving me a gift(they let the cat out of the bag) and it is a Jingle dress. I have been dancing now for a little while in Ladies Southern Cloth, so is it ok to make the change? I also know that by tradition we are suppose to ask someone from Ojibway nation for permission, but I do not know anyone from that nation? I am not in an area where I am aware of anyone from that nation being near by. I would love to dance this style but don't want to go running in without first doing the right thing about it. So what do you guys think? I will cherish the dress regardless for years, whether I dance in it or not, I think it is a beautiful gift for me, but I just want to make sure it's ok to dance in first?
    Also, if I started dancing in Jingle(that is if I'm allowed to) is it wrong to switch back to Southern Cloth? I know not at the same powwow, or same day, just saying I'd want to dance traditional one powwow, then a few months later wear the jingle and dance jingle? Or again what are your thoughts?
    I do not want to start a heated debate but I do want to know!
    Thank you so much in advance!!!!!
    I don't doubt anything, but I question everything
    All I know is what I do not know and will never know all of what I do not know.


    2012 Powwows.com Princess :D

  • #2
    Sure, you can dance but expect to answer a lot of questions. Who gave you permission? Who taught you the steps? Who sewed your dress? Who turned the cones? Did you feed the dress? What nation claims you? Who are your elders? Why would someone gift a jingle dress to you? What if it doesn't fit? Are these people making jingle dresses to sell? Do they belong to a federally recognized nation? When was your coming out ceremony? Who spoke for you?

    Lastly, you should save up to make a trip to Ojibwe territory and do the right thing.
    Last edited by wanjica_the_one; 11-13-2010, 05:41 AM.
    Wanjica Infinity No One

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    • #3
      Thanks :-) I understand about all the questions being asked, and will say I've seen some women/girls just JUMP in there with nothing thought of it, but I just do not want to do something that I don't need to. I will try to find out more information regarding this dress's history. The person who is giving the gift isn't making them, she just said that based on what she has read she thought it would be perfect since I live the sober lifestyle, not just one the powwow weekends but all year round, that is my choice and has always been and always will be. So I'll get more information, and it would be so nice if I could travel there- but that will have to wait a while because I have to first save the money back for a trip, and also get off of work and out of college. I will try to do the right thing regardless :-)
      I will stay in the southern cloth dress/dance for now.
      Thank you!
      I don't doubt anything, but I question everything
      All I know is what I do not know and will never know all of what I do not know.


      2012 Powwows.com Princess :D

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
        Sure, you can dance but expect to answer a lot of questions. Who gave you permission? Who taught you the steps? Who sewed your dress? Who turned the cones? Did you feed the dress? What nation claims you? Who are your elders? Why would someone gift a jingle dress to you? What if it doesn't fit? Are these people making jingle dresses to sell? Do they belong to a federally recognized nation? When was your coming out ceremony? Who spoke for you?

        Lastly, you should save up to make a trip to Ojibwe territory and do the right thing.
        I would like to dance jingle myself, but i dance traditonal too. when i was little i was gifted a jingle dress and i danced jingle.I would want to do the right thing also. I don't have the money to travel. But i do know a lady that is half ojibwe and is a teacher of healing that goes to powwows down here in the south. I think i should talk to her. I am making my dress rolling the cones and sewing. But i read your comments about the questions that will be asked. And i want to do the right thing without offending anyone. I would diffentley respect the dress and i am diffentley a lady. I really like the trad jingle dress. I wouldn't be out there for show I would dance because i like the nation and dress and dance and grace. but i think i will just make the dress and wait till i have permission. I will just make another trad. dress. Its just ashame how people can sell jingle dresses like it don't matter when there is steps to be taken.

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        • #5
          Hopefully, I won't sound harsh on this, but here's what I think.

          Jingle dress originated with the Anishnabe (Ojibwe) people, and to start dancing jingle without consulting an Ojibwe who dances this style and getting proper teaching and permission is, to me, disrespectful.

          I'm not Ojibwe, I'm Chickasaw. When I came into the circle as a southern cloth dancer I had someone speak for me, and teach me about my style and the protocol associated, being that I don't come from powwow people. My daughter, who is now 11, started asking about jingle a couple of years ago. We contacted a respected dancer up in northern Wisconsin who has been teaching the young for many years. We brought tobacco and asked in a good way. She told me about the dress and how to make it, and we spent a year getting things together and then made a trip up north (about 6 hours' drive) for more teaching. This lady then brought my daughter into the circle several months later.

          I don't recommend taking short cuts with this, or any dance style for that matter, but this one in particular. There is a respect that goes along with this style that, to me, demands that one who seeks to dance this style make whatever sacrifices (time, money, travel) necessary to get taught the right way.

          I realize that times are tough and money, work, etc., make traveling difficult, and if you aren't living close to where the Ojibwe rez's are, then that's a bigger hurdle. We're not rich, either, but it was worth the time and effort to do this the right way.

          My daughter, incidentally, has blond hair, and it is a comfort when she enters the circle each time knowing that if she is asked how she got her dress or who gave her permission that she can give the name of someone well respected in the powwow community here as her sponsor and teacher.

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          • #6
            Thank you all! I found out a little about the dress, and trying to find out more. I will not dance in it until I know I have had permission from someone who can give it. It will be taken very well care of until then!
            Thankful I have found Powwows.com everyone's thoughts, and opinions are so good to have, and I sure want to do right in all things I do, not just "because one person jumps off a bridge does that mean you are going to to". Thank you again!
            I don't doubt anything, but I question everything
            All I know is what I do not know and will never know all of what I do not know.


            2012 Powwows.com Princess :D

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NorthofAda View Post
              Hopefully, I won't sound harsh on this, but here's what I think.

              Jingle dress originated with the Anishnabe (Ojibwe) people, and to start dancing jingle without consulting an Ojibwe who dances this style and getting proper teaching and permission is, to me, disrespectful.

              I'm not Ojibwe, I'm Chickasaw. When I came into the circle as a southern cloth dancer I had someone speak for me, and teach me about my style and the protocol associated, being that I don't come from powwow people. My daughter, who is now 11, started asking about jingle a couple of years ago. We contacted a respected dancer up in northern Wisconsin who has been teaching the young for many years. We brought tobacco and asked in a good way. She told me about the dress and how to make it, and we spent a year getting things together and then made a trip up north (about 6 hours' drive) for more teaching. This lady then brought my daughter into the circle several months later.

              I don't recommend taking short cuts with this, or any dance style for that matter, but this one in particular. There is a respect that goes along with this style that, to me, demands that one who seeks to dance this style make whatever sacrifices (time, money, travel) necessary to get taught the right way.

              I realize that times are tough and money, work, etc., make traveling difficult, and if you aren't living close to where the Ojibwe rez's are, then that's a bigger hurdle. We're not rich, either, but it was worth the time and effort to do this the right way.

              My daughter, incidentally, has blond hair, and it is a comfort when she enters the circle each time knowing that if she is asked how she got her dress or who gave her permission that she can give the name of someone well respected in the powwow community here as her sponsor and teacher.
              i totally agree with everything u have said. i know a chippewa lady i will start there thanks for the advice. color hair doesn't really matter. people shouldn't judge and should mind their bussiness if they r not chippewa.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by short apache girl View Post
                i totally agree with everything u have said. i know a chippewa lady i will start there thanks for the advice. color hair doesn't really matter. people shouldn't judge and should mind their bussiness if they r not chippewa.
                A bit pushy with a snotty attitude, you have. Who gave you the right?
                Wanjica Infinity No One

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
                  A bit pushy with a snotty attitude, you have. Who gave you the right?
                  no not really. right of what? people should not judge by the skin or hair or anything. But the dress yes i agree its belongs to the chippewa people and u should have permission i was just asking for some suggestions. r u ok with that.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by short apache girl View Post
                    no not really. right of what? people should not judge by the skin or hair or anything. But the dress yes i agree its belongs to the chippewa people and u should have permission i was just asking for some suggestions. r u ok with that.
                    I can see that you are not humble. You seem very rugged and loud. No, I am not ok with your style. What nation claims you?
                    Wanjica Infinity No One

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by short apache girl View Post
                      i totally agree with everything u have said. i know a chippewa lady i will start there thanks for the advice. color hair doesn't really matter. people shouldn't judge and should mind their bussiness if they r not chippewa.
                      Originally posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
                      A bit pushy with a snotty attitude, you have. Who gave you the right?
                      Originally posted by short apache girl View Post
                      no not really. right of what? people should not judge by the skin or hair or anything. But the dress yes i agree its belongs to the chippewa people and u should have permission i was just asking for some suggestions. r u ok with that.
                      Originally posted by wanjica_the_one View Post
                      I can see that you are not humble. You seem very rugged and loud. No, I am not ok with your style. What nation claims you?

                      geez you two...get a room!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Grits & Beans View Post
                        geez you two...get a room!
                        yah really think so? i was thinking more of the back of a pick up with pendleton blankets.
                        Wanjica Infinity No One

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                        • #13
                          Dad? LOL



                          (apologies to SBarnes for going off topic...)
                          Last edited by yaahl; 11-19-2010, 12:02 AM.
                          A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. — Robert A. Heinlein

                          I can see the wheel turning but the Hamster appears to be dead.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Grits & Beans View Post
                            geez you two...get a room!
                            lol. apache

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by yaahl View Post
                              Dad? LOL



                              (apologies to SBarnes for going off topic...)
                              I was thinkin more like 'father'??
                              J/K J/K religious people.

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