Is it Allowed!

[Haliwa Indian Gal]

Hey Jingle Dancers,
If I see a Jingle Dress I really like that is for sale on the internet,but doesn't look quite like I want it or not the perfect fit,and I print it out and get- say my aunt-to make it using the same concept and style but adding on and a different color,Is that allowed.

:Chatter

[Kiwehnzii]

I am not a jingle dress dancer, but definitely "NO!":NoNo

[Nagi]

What is it about that particular dress that you like? Decorations (i.e., applique, etc.)? The style of the dress itself? A component of the dress (you like the basic dress but would use different sleeves, etc.)?

I'm not a jingle dress dancer, but my daughter is and I make her dresses. Each time we make a dress, we think about and/or refer to pictures of other dresses we've seen and talk about what it is on each dress that we like.

To say that other dresses didn't inspire us as we design would be a lie... SURE they do!

HOWEVER ... my daughter's dresses are not clones of someone else's dress(es) only in a different color combination. Each dress is unique.

Example:
Kate's first dress was inspired by a beautiful, two-piece, red velvet dress we saw at the local powwow. The "inspiration dress" was complete with a gorgeous white eyelet under skirt so that the dancer could pull the jingle dress up out of the way to sit down and still maintain modesty. The ONLY things Kate's first dress had in common with the inspiration dress was that it was a) red velvet and b) had an underskirt. Where the inspiration dress was two-piece with straight horizontal rows of jingles, Kate's was one-piece with zig-zagging rows of jingles. Where the first dress was trimmed in white, Kate's was trimmed in yellow, red, and orange. Where the inspiration dress's underskirt was white eyelet, Kate's had an orange underskirt with jingles on the bottom edge.

So you see, we were "inspired" by a dress we saw, but if you stood the two dresses side by side, the only truly noticable commonality would have been the fabric itself. Even the two reds were slightly different.

My 34 cents worth (before the rates go up!)
Nagi

[Kiwehnzii]

Sorry folks, I stand by my original "NO"

Many dancers work for hours on their outfits and to go to into a grand entry with someone wearing an outfit closely resembling theirs would pretty well piss a person off. Changing it a bit doesn't cut it. You'd still know someone copied.

Furthermore, other dancers would think you were the one who did the copying. Either way, you'd be pissed.

My 1/2 cent (Canadian) 2 cents (U.S.) :)

Oh yeah I only have 150 posts (Canadian exchange):p

[FancyStar]

Myself, If you get an idea for a dress from seeing someone else's, that's fine. BUT, If you copy someone's dress to the point of people recognize who exactly you got your idea from then that is going to far!!! I work really hard on my stuff. I might see something here or there about someones outfit I like and then change it to match my style, but I would never copy someones designs. I work hard for myself to be unique to me and for people I make outfits for. If I see someone copy one of my designs to the point where I recognize my own then I get extremely pissed off and almost to the point of swinging on someone.
We all have people we admire and look up to, whether it be for their ever keen outfits or their awesome style of dancing. It's one thing to admire and aspire to be "LIKE" them, it's another to cheat off someone else's hard work!!
The best thing is to put yourself in that person's shoes and think about how you would feel if someone did that to you and your hardwork!!!

[Nagi]

Originally posted by Kiwehnzii
My 1/2 cent (Canadian) 2 cents (U.S.) :)

Oh yeah I only have 150 posts (Canadian exchange):p

ROFL! I wondered why the number of posts I had disappeared. That Canadian exchange thing must have been it!

As to what you're saying, YES ... I agree that if it is such a close "mimic" it looks like the same outfit, but just in other colors, then you should NOT do it.

What I was trying to get across (obviously not too well!) was that there is a difference between copying something and being inspired by something, and that the original poster should try to figure out what it is about the "for sale" dress that she likes.

I guess maybe the way I taught at a middle school recently might help explain it. I took my family's regalia in (one jingle, one fancy shawl, one grass, and two tab dresses). For each class, I asked them when was the last time they saw regalia on sale in local department stores, Wal-Marts, or Goody's (local chain). Amazingly ;) none of them could recall. I then held up one of the dresses and pointed out that you cannot walk into most stores and buy this outfit saying, "only I'd like it in blue." I also explained that every outfit is unique and that no two should ever be alike.

BUT ... think about something. There are only so many ways to make a (example) tab dress. There are only so many colors of fabric to choose from. There are only so many colors of ribbons and types of appropriate decorations to choose from, etc. At some point, there are going to exist in all the world at least two (example again) navy blue tab dresses with red ribbon trim and cowrie shells circling from the neckline out in radiating rows REGARDLESS of whether the two wearers know each other or have even ever seen each other.

Anyway ... take the buyable dress picture and duplicate it with only slight modifications? NO!!! .... take the buyable dress picture and tell your seamstress relative you really like the fact that it has a fitted style and the jingles go in diagonal rows, YES ... as long as colors, decoration, other style aspects of the dress (like the sleeves), etc., are drastically changed to make sure that, if you stood side by side with someone wearing the buyable dress, know one could assume one was based on the other.

Make sense?

Nagi

[Singing Otter]

In my honest opinion there's a difference between getting inspiration and stealing somebody's stuff. Inspiration yeah. Stealing no.

[Haliwa Indian Gal]

It is really an inspirational dress.Plus I plan to change the color plus the short sleeves into elbow sleeves with zip on long sleeves for when it gets cold.Plus a underskirt added to it.

[Nagi]

Originally posted by Haliwa Indian Gal
Plus I plan to change the color plus the short sleeves into elbow sleeves with zip on long sleeves for when it gets cold.Plus a underskirt added to it.

Then if you're doing that plus changing any "applique" type decoration and lines of jingles to your own, it is (in my opinion) okay to be inspired. ;)

Nagi

PS ... remember folks. I said in MY opinion so flame me, not Haliwa!!!

[pow-wow-wooer]

I wish everyone would stop making those stupid 2 cent jokes...

I agree with what straight said in the first part of this thread. There's nothing wrong with copying, but why would you want to?

I know, I would feel proud of myself if I came up with a design, and I wouldn't really care if it was copied. There are limits to that of course, I wouldn't want to see some dude in the my area who had the same stuff I do.

I say, if you can't be creative enough to come up with yer own stuff, then continue to be laughed at.

[zeph]

gee, I'd pay at least a quarter to listen to these jokes!

[Nightime_Sun]

Well I am a jingle dress dancer and my first dress was maroon w/ no decoration except printed ribbon and my jingles were in a V shape...the first time that i danced i saw a teen jingle dress dancer w/ a dress similar to mine only her's had a vest but still it was marron w/ no decorations on it just like mine and i was kind of pissed...she didn't copy me or i didn't copy her. it was the first time that i saw her and it was the first time that she saw me but still i didn't want to wear my dress while she was wearing hers. They looked very much alike. I'm not sayin i totally agree w/ no and i am not saying i totally agree w/ yes but it's everyone's own opinon. some dancers even like that admiration from others in dancing and in outfits. It just makes them feel good but then some might take it personally. everyone is unique and outfits should be that way too but if u have to go ahead. if we all didn't just copy alil bit we'd probley all have the same outfits. anyway that's me u are who u are. so my point is do what u gotta do.

[STATE]

Hey, if you have the right to dance that style, then you can make your dress to your satisfaction. I am a southern cloth dancer and I see alot of outfits that I admire. But, I'm old school and so are my parents, so I dress in my own tribal clothes. I do get offended when tribes who have not been given the right to dress my tribes and yet they do because they like the clothes or they want to win.
But that's your style and you have the right to dance it then go for whatever makes you feel good about yourself. Jingle dresses are pretty contemporary now from what I have seen. I own one that was given to me with the dance in Wisconsin. I have only worn it a few times, though I truly respect the family who have it to me. It is hand-stitched and has the 365 jingles on it. But I like the new contemporary ones too.

[pow-wow person]

Sorry folks, I stand by my original "NO"

Many dancers work for hours on their outfits and to go to into a grand entry with someone wearing an outfit closely resembling theirs would pretty well piss a person off. Changing it a bit doesn't cut it. You'd still know someone copied.

Furthermore, other dancers would think you were the one who did the copying. Either way, you'd be pissed.

My 1/2 cent (Canadian) 2 cents (U.S.) :)

Oh yeah I only have 150 posts (Canadian exchange):p

Just like in Indian dancing there is only so many ways to make it your own and unless you did an "exact" match then Let it go...

have your 1/2 sense back. I dont think I have ever seen an exact match anywhere at any powwow - just go an have a good time and dance, thats what its about anyway, I know the majority of dancers that have spectacular outfits do it for the money but they are doing what they want with their own life and that is their own beeswax.

[wyo_rose]

*dusting this thread off*

I made a jingle dress for a girl once, and she had specific instructions on how she wanted it made. I didn't find out until later, she was describing someone else's dress to me, and we had made a 'copy' with just a few changes. I felt really bad, and will not be doing that again!!