Sumo

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Nazi design in Lakota beadwork late 1800s

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Recently I heard the Swastika also is a roman symbol of some kind and that the nazis took it from there, don't know if that's how it went.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
      It should not be hard to understand the original meaning of this thread at all.
      And it wasn't hard to understand the original meaning of the thread, but your subsequent posts regarding your arguments didn't reconcile with one another. Just my two cents.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Spiritflight View Post
        Recently I heard the Swastika also is a roman symbol of some kind and that the nazis took it from there, don't know if that's how it went.
        Speaking of roman symbol - I just read in the news - the german Pope is going to resign by the end of this month.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by lbgood View Post
          And it wasn't hard to understand the original meaning of the thread, but your subsequent posts regarding your arguments didn't reconcile with one another. Just my two cents.
          And, in my opinion, an accurate synopsis.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Spiritflight View Post
            Recently I heard the Swastika also is a roman symbol of some kind and that the nazis took it from there, don't know if that's how it went.
            I too came across this fact when my interest in this symbol was awakened after posting about it's meaning here on the PW site. The drawing I saw of it as it related to Romans was on a Roman shield. It was somewhat a modified version with almost a 'flame' design attached on the sides. I was almost interested in it enough to start research into that particular usage, but I finally (and rightfully) grew tired of it all.
            I have to admit that the forum (more than one forum was involved) disputes and clashes that stemmed from the search for the true origins and meanings of this symbol in all of it's forms has been an extremely interesting (and exhausting) one.
            Before beginning this search for meaning I had no idea that it was a symbol that has a part in many cultures and civilizations around the world. As much as I like to research items I do not know about to broaden my base of knowledge, once I started to research this symbol it pretty much took over my life!
            The more I got into it, the more I found out and that research took me to many places...NYC libraries, bookstores and museums and even some Goth inspired shops in the East Village. It has been quite the journey!
            For me personally, it is beyond explanation, reason and justification that Hitler took this once sacred symbol that represented so many positive things to many different cultures and attached such an ugly and nasty meaning to it. I am sure there are many cultures that curtailed it's use once that unforgivable time in history occurred and now want nothing to do with it.
            As to our own culture disassociating itself from it, I think at the time it was the correct thing to do. To reawaken it now seems to be almost pointless as so many people will never know how deeply it touched the lives of people of so many different cultures only to have those meanings discounted by what the Nazis did to it. While it's past use in history has been a positive one, nothing can be done to erase it's current meaning. Even after finding out as much as I have about the symbol and the positive meanings it once carried, it is still bothering me to think of using it.
            I have some time before I come to the part of my own work where I have to decide whether or not to include it, so my own personal controversy continues!!
            Once again, I want to extend a huge thanks to all those who took interest in it and attempted to help me in my search for the meaning of it as we used it in our own culture.
            And to those who enjoyed the topic only for the drama it has caused, thank you too for allowing me to learn more about myself. I regrettably lowered my own standards and engaged in the back and forths that this search caused. Unfortunately it caused me to set aside the one 'inherited' trait that I am the most proud of...that of thinking deeply before responding. I was always taught to let opposing views to be only that, differing views of others. I let the negative parts of this thread affect me and allowed them to bring out an ugly side of me that I do not like showing in public. For that I am deeply ashamed and I vow to never let that happen again on this forum.
            "Sometimes the character of the opposition defines why something ought to be the most politically viable thing in the world that needs to be changed"

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
              I too came across this fact when my interest in this symbol was awakened after posting about it's meaning here on the PW site. The drawing I saw of it as it related to Romans was on a Roman shield. It was somewhat a modified version with almost a 'flame' design attached on the sides. I was almost interested in it enough to start research into that particular usage, but I finally (and rightfully) grew tired of it all.
              I have to admit that the forum (more than one forum was involved) disputes and clashes that stemmed from the search for the true origins and meanings of this symbol in all of it's forms has been an extremely interesting (and exhausting) one.
              Before beginning this search for meaning I had no idea that it was a symbol that has a part in many cultures and civilizations around the world. As much as I like to research items I do not know about to broaden my base of knowledge, once I started to research this symbol it pretty much took over my life!
              The more I got into it, the more I found out and that research took me to many places...NYC libraries, bookstores and museums and even some Goth inspired shops in the East Village. It has been quite the journey!
              For me personally, it is beyond explanation, reason and justification that Hitler took this once sacred symbol that represented so many positive things to many different cultures and attached such an ugly and nasty meaning to it. I am sure there are many cultures that curtailed it's use once that unforgivable time in history occurred and now want nothing to do with it.
              As to our own culture disassociating itself from it, I think at the time it was the correct thing to do. To reawaken it now seems to be almost pointless as so many people will never know how deeply it touched the lives of people of so many different cultures only to have those meanings discounted by what the Nazis did to it. While it's past use in history has been a positive one, nothing can be done to erase it's current meaning. Even after finding out as much as I have about the symbol and the positive meanings it once carried, it is still bothering me to think of using it.
              I have some time before I come to the part of my own work where I have to decide whether or not to include it, so my own personal controversy continues!!
              Once again, I want to extend a huge thanks to all those who took interest in it and attempted to help me in my search for the meaning of it as we used it in our own culture.
              And to those who enjoyed the topic only for the drama it has caused, thank you too for allowing me to learn more about myself. I regrettably lowered my own standards and engaged in the back and forths that this search caused. Unfortunately it caused me to set aside the one 'inherited' trait that I am the most proud of...that of thinking deeply before responding. I was always taught to let opposing views to be only that, differing views of others. I let the negative parts of this thread affect me and allowed them to bring out an ugly side of me that I do not like showing in public. For that I am deeply ashamed and I vow to never let that happen again on this forum.
              So it teaches, that people from different parts of this planet independently from each other must have used that symbol for - how should I say - cultural things. Except that Hitler, he abused it, loathing mankind. His horrid ideas - he was an austrian, not even a german. And those days many many germans were poor as heck and he promised them work and a better life, he gave power to germans and understood to tickle out peoples evil sides and sadism. Gave power to nobodies to rule over small groups and all the way down. So many all of a sudden must have felt important and not poor and worn out anymore. In those days they had no TV's no telephones or cellphones, news was sent over radio channels and propaganda films in cinemas, newspapers. But at those days many germans weren't educated. The majority poor believers to anything to give them option for a better life. They were jealous that many jewish people did so well in trading and other businesses and they didn't like that. His ideas about blonde, tall and blue eyed people was plain idiotic crap, he himself wasn't even blonde. He infected germans that may would have been 'okay' people if he never appeared. As I said, he understood how to lead people on an evil path. What I write is no excuse - never - genocide - no excuse - it is perverted thinking and Hitler was perverted - who knows how it happend? He had a cruel father and his mother didn't care. That's what I heard on a TV biographical film. No pity for him. And how would have ended if he would have had to continue? Him killing in the end all those germans that do not have blue eyes? Or blonde hair? There always have been germans with dark hair and brown eyes, many. Even my mother hat dark hair. Unfortunately she was forced to go to that girls nazi school for a couple of years. Yes she was a hard person and sometimes a bit cruel to me. Even kids got lead on to report anything they hear against nazi ways and then the parents got imprisoned and the kids probably taken to some kind of nazi boarding schools. Germans were forbidden to listen to other radio stations, foreign, whatever and if some neighbor would have got to know about this he would have reported that to the Gestapo or nazi Police. And there comes back in the feeling great about having power over people. A lot of people like to have that kind of power. That whole system was a close knit and people could never be sure if they got friend or enemy infront of them. And they all feared for their lives if they wouldn't obey. My fathers side those relatives never had any nazi behavior I sensed, I don't know, there probably were a good portion of germans to go into resistance but it was dangerous and they always had to fear death like all those victims. Only academics and other wealthy people had access to more informative news from other places as they could afford telephone and radios and such. They are also to blame to keep a herd of uneducated germans on thight leaches. - This was just a report I wrote from things I have seen heard and read. In Germany I can tell which people are nazi minded or still have that poison way of thinking and which are not, just by the way they talk.

              Comment


              • #97


                That was a good thread everyone!
                I agree, the bead-work threads usually don't have this much action.

                Nicely done and thanks for all the energy invested!
                "I'm learning to accept the things that are beyond my control,
                and working on improving the things that are." -RBTF

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
                  I let the negative parts of this thread affect me and allowed them to bring out an ugly side of me that I do not like showing in public. For that I am deeply ashamed and I vow to never let that happen again on this forum.
                  1. I didn't see anything "negative."
                  2. "Never," is a REALLY long time.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Toolbox View Post
                    *Bump*. I'm keeping an eye on this thread. I don't want to have to use my thread tazer and zap this thing until it calms down... LOL. Just messin', carry on.

                    THREAD COP !!




                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

                      The swastika (卐) (Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक) is an equilateral cross with four arms bent at 90 degrees. The earliest archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization, Ancient India as well as Classical Antiquity. Swastikas have also been used in various other ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, primarily as a tantric symbol to evoke shakti or the sacred symbol of auspiciousness. The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good" or "auspicious," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix. The swastika literally means "to be good". Or another translation can be made: "swa" is "higher self", "asti" meaning "being", and "ka" as a suffix, so the translation can be interpreted as "being with higher self".

                      In East Asia, the swastika is a Chinese character, defined by Kangxi Dictionary, published in 1716, as "synonym of myriad, used mostly in Buddhist classic texts",[1] by extension, the word later evolved to represent eternity and Buddhism.

                      The symbol has a long history in Europe reaching back to antiquity. In modern times, following a brief surge of popularity as a good luck symbol in Western culture, a swastika was adopted as a symbol of the Nazi Party of Germany in 1920, who used the swastika as a symbol of the Aryan race. After Adolf Hitler came to power in 1933, a right-facing and rotated swastika was incorporated into the Nazi party flag, which was made the state flag of Germany during Nazism. Hence, the swastika has become strongly associated with Nazism and related ideologies such as fascism and white supremacism in the Western world, and is now largely stigmatized there due to the changed connotations of the symbol. Notably, it has been outlawed in Germany and other countries if used as a symbol of Nazism. Many modern political extremists and Neo-Nazi groups such as the Russian National Unity use stylized swastikas or similar symbols.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • Swastika: Hijacked by Nazis in 1920

                        http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swa...ikahistory.htm


                        Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck.

                        Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.


                        A Change in Meaning
                        In the 1800s, countries around Germany were growing much larger, forming empires; yet Germany was not a unified country until 1871. To counter the feeling of vulnerability and the stigma of youth, German nationalists in the mid-nineteenth century began to use the swastika, because it had ancient Aryan/Indian origins, to represent a long Germanic/Aryan history.

                        By the end of the nineteenth century, the swastika could be found on nationalist German volkisch periodicals and was the official emblem of the German Gymnasts' League.

                        In the beginning of the twentieth century, the swastika was a common symbol of German nationalism and could be found in a multitude of places such as the emblem for the Wandervogel, a German youth movement; on Joerg Lanz von Liebenfels' antisemitic periodical Ostara; on various Freikorps units; and as an emblem of the Thule Society.


                        Hitler and the Nazis
                        In 1920, Adolf Hitler decided that the Nazi Party needed its own insignia and flag. For Hitler, the new flag had to be "a symbol of our own struggle" as well as "highly effective as a poster." (Mein Kampf, pg. 495)

                        On August 7, 1920, at the Salzburg Congress, the red flag with a white circle and black swastika became the official emblem of the Nazi Party.

                        In Mein Kampf, Hitler described the Nazis' new flag: "In red we see the social idea of the movement, in white the nationalistic idea, in the swastika the mission of the struggle for the victory of the Aryan man, and, by the same token, the victory of the idea of creative work, which as such always has been and always will be anti-Semitic." (pg. 496-497)

                        Because of the Nazis' flag, the swastika soon became a symbol of hate, antisemitism, violence, death, and murder.


                        What Does the Swastika Mean Now?
                        There is a great debate as to what the swastika means now. For 3,000 years, the swastika meant life and good luck. But because of the Nazis, it has also taken on a meaning of death and hate.
                        These conflicting meanings are causing problems in today's society.

                        For Buddhists and Hindus, the swastika is a very religious symbol that is commonly used. Chirag Badlani shares a story about one time when he went to make some photocopies of some Hindu Gods for his temple. While standing in line to pay for the photocopies, some people behind him in line noticed that one of the pictures had a swastika. They called him a Nazi.

                        Unfortunately, the Nazis were so effective at their use of the swastika emblem, that many do not even know any other meaning for the swastika. Can there be two completely opposite meanings for one symbol?
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • Before the Nazis stole the swastika symbol...

                          What was the meaning behind this symbol in Native American cultures? How long had it been in use?

                          What was the name for this symbol in the Native languages?
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • I don't know but maybe in Native American Cultures it had to do with SUN ?

                            Comment


                            • http://www.examiner.com/article/the-...nned-swastikas



                              The U.S. 45th Infantry Division once donned swastikas

                              45th Infantry Division September 9, 2012
                              By: Shelly Barclay


                              Despite the negative connotations of the swastika, the Nazi monopoly on the symbol has only existed since World War II. Before then, many groups adopted it as a symbol. One of these groups was the 45th Infantry Division of the United States Army. As you would imagine, they have since changed the insignia. Its most recent incarnation is a thunderbird.

                              In August of 1924, the 45th Infantry Division adopted the swastika as their shoulder patch insignia. It was a symbol they picked up from the local Native American tribes and was meant to be respectful to them. The swastika they chose is bright yellow inside a red square with the points up, down, left and right rather than at the corners. The colors are very typical of the southwest.

                              The 45th Infantry Division changed their insignia to a thunderbird in 1939, as Germany was making many enemies among countries that the United States would soon align with. The thunderbird that they picked up as their new insignia was also taken from local natives, so they were able to keep at least that purpose. Two years later, they were made regular army for a limited time in preparation for war. They had to undergo extensive training to become battle ready and were not shipped out until June 8, 1943.

                              The unit was kept busy during their time overseas and, having apparently lost deference for the swastika, was allegedly involved in two massacres of German soldiers. The 45th I.D. also fought in the Korean War. The division is currently inactive.

                              ..
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_In...(United_States)

                                The division's original shoulder sleeve insignia, approved in August 1924,[12] featured a swastika, a common Native American symbol, as a tribute to the Southwestern United States region which had a large population of Native Americans. However, with the rise of the Nazi Party in Germany, with its infamous swastika symbol, the 45th Division stopped using the insignia.[13]

                                Following a long process of submissions for new designs, a new shoulder sleeve insignia, designed by a Carnegie, Oklahoma native named Woody Big Bow,[14] featuring the Thunderbird, another Native American symbol, was approved in 1939.[1
                                sigpic

                                Comment

                                Join the online community forum celebrating Native American Culture, Pow Wows, tribes, music, art, and history.

                                Related Topics

                                Collapse

                                Trending

                                Collapse

                                There are no results that meet this criteria.

                                Sidebar Ad

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X