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Nazi design in Lakota beadwork late 1800s

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  • Originally posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post
    Before the Nazis stole the swastika symbol...

    What was the meaning behind this symbol in Native American cultures? How long had it been in use?

    What was the name for this symbol in the Native languages?
    The exact point I was conveying in my original post. This symbol was never a swastika to the indigenous people of this great land. How long had it been used throughout, and by whom, this land.


    Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


    "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

    Mr. Rossie Freeman

    Comment


    • Joe's dad:
      "The exact point I was conveying in my original post. This symbol was never a swastika to the indigenous people of this great land. How long had it been used throughout, and by whom, this land."

      FWIW, I C&Ped your original post and the two that followed below. And all of your subsequent posts were just as *informative*.
      NOT.
      Between you and zeke I don't know whose eyes are the brownest, both of you being so full of crap. Neither of you contributed anything of substance... NO valid information whatsoever about the subject at hand. Your only contributions to this thread were irrelevant comments/biased observations about me.
      And someone accused me of not having a sense of humor!! Thanks for my laugh of the day!!

      1st tidbit of knowledge:

      "Wow. Your family was rewriting history in the 1800's? I didn't know there were nazis in the 1800's. I thought nazism didn't originate until the 1930's."

      Then this tidbit of knowledge:

      "I wasn't implying humor. I was pointing out your ignorance to native culture....your own culture. You only strengthened my observation when you had to go 'research' the 'swastika'.
      I would suppose non-Indian people's reaction to you wearing a 'swastika' at a powwow this summer would be same as yours. They would wonder why you would be wearing a swastika. But then, I would expect that ignorance. They are non-native.
      BTW I thought the Lakota Oyate spelled grandmother... unci."

      And finally to verify that I am indeed Lakota from SD, this doozy of a comment:

      "I stand by my statements.
      Are you familiar with Slim Buttes?
      Can you take me to Rapid from the Agency, through Cuny Table?
      I think your outburst is a cover up to you being 'not knowledgeable'."

      Well maybe I should take that comment about the irrelevance of your posts as I did learn a new spelling of Unchi...UNCI.

      Nah, forget it, I'll stand by my original comments about you and zeke...
      Last edited by Elo Janis; 02-12-2013, 04:29 PM. Reason: additional posts from Joes dad proving my allegations
      "Sometimes the character of the opposition defines why something ought to be the most politically viable thing in the world that needs to be changed"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
        Once again, I want to extend a huge thanks to all those who took interest in it and attempted to help me in my search for the meaning of it as we used it in our own culture.
        And to those who enjoyed the topic only for the drama it has caused, thank you too for allowing me to learn more about myself. I regrettably lowered my own standards and engaged in the back and forths that this search caused. Unfortunately it caused me to set aside the one 'inherited' trait that I am the most proud of...that of thinking deeply before responding. I was always taught to let opposing views to be only that, differing views of others. I let the negative parts of this thread affect me and allowed them to bring out an ugly side of me that I do not like showing in public. For that I am deeply ashamed and I vow to never let that happen again on this forum.

        Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
        Joe's dad:
        "The exact point I was conveying in my original post. This symbol was never a swastika to the indigenous people of this great land. How long had it been used throughout, and by whom, this land."

        FWIW, I C&Ped your original post and the two that followed below. And all of your subsequent posts were just as *informative*.
        NOT.
        Between you and zeke I don't know whose eyes are the brownest, both of you being so full of crap. Neither of you contributed anything of substance... NO valid information whatsoever about the subject at hand. Your only contributions to this thread were irrelevant comments/biased observations about me.
        And someone accused me of not having a sense of humor!! Thanks for my laugh of the day!!

        1st tidbit of knowledge:

        "Wow. Your family was rewriting history in the 1800's? I didn't know there were nazis in the 1800's. I thought nazism didn't originate until the 1930's."

        Then this tidbit of knowledge:

        "I wasn't implying humor. I was pointing out your ignorance to native culture....your own culture. You only strengthened my observation when you had to go 'research' the 'swastika'.
        I would suppose non-Indian people's reaction to you wearing a 'swastika' at a powwow this summer would be same as yours. They would wonder why you would be wearing a swastika. But then, I would expect that ignorance. They are non-native.
        BTW I thought the Lakota Oyate spelled grandmother... unci."

        And finally to verify that I am indeed Lakota from SD, this doozy of a comment:

        "I stand by my statements.
        Are you familiar with Slim Buttes?
        Can you take me to Rapid from the Agency, through Cuny Table?
        I think your outburst is a cover up to you being 'not knowledgeable'."

        Well maybe I should take that comment about the irrelevance of your posts as I did learn a new spelling of Unchi...UNCI.

        Nah, forget it, I'll stand by my original comments about you and zeke...
        Hmmmmm

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
          Nah, forget it, I'll stand by my original comments about you and zeke...
          Everything else you've said is short-sighted, wrong, backwards, embarrassing, closeted and laughable.

          Why would you NOT stand by other erroneous statements?

          I'd have found it odd had you not.

          Comment


          • Maybe the History Channel can air a show about this symbol...

            ...cuz this thread is paddlin toward the waterfall

            sigpic

            Comment


            • Originally posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post

              ...cuz this thread is paddlin toward the waterfall

              hehe funny comment!!
              Credit and respect is due to those informed posters who took their valuable time to do some rather in depth research who were then kind enough to offer their results that served to make this of the most informational threads on the beading section, if not the entire forum.
              If one were to take out the distracting and needless commentary, (including some made defending myself) this thread could be used as a reference for a History Channel documentary!!
              The only way we learn is from asking questions about that which we do not know. Remember the saying "the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked"?

              zeke, staying true to his irrelevant, testosterone laden method of posting then made this post:

              "Everything else you've said is short-sighted, wrong, backwards, embarrassing, closeted and laughable.

              Why would you NOT stand by other erroneous statements?

              I'd have found it odd had you not."
              which I just find to be so very...odd. You are firing a rifle that has no ammunition!
              Closeted? Really? Laughable? Only to those who make, defend and enjoy mocking and inflammatory statements...reminiscent of those made by grade school bullies.

              To sum up my thoughts on this informative thread, I will repost something Itzhecatl stated:

              "That was a good thread everyone!
              I agree, the bead-work threads usually don't have this much action.
              Nicely done and thanks for all the energy invested!"

              That's all...
              "Sometimes the character of the opposition defines why something ought to be the most politically viable thing in the world that needs to be changed"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
                ...reminiscent of those made by grade school bullies.
                Except, of course, nothing was said about you, merely your (embarrassingly naive) opinion.

                In sum, you whine about being bullied when only your (poorly conceived) rhetoric is being battered.

                That's not the mark of a bully, it's the mark of someone who revels in victimization, claiming it under any personally perceived duress.

                Bottom line? That's weak.

                Again, it's those who think as you do that hold us back.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Zeke View Post
                  Except, of course, nothing was said about you, merely your (embarrassingly naive) opinion.
                  In sum, you whine about being bullied when only your (poorly conceived) rhetoric is being battered. That's not the mark of a bully, it's the mark of someone who revels in victimization, claiming it under any personally perceived duress.
                  Bottom line? That's weak.
                  Again, it's those who think as you do that hold us back.
                  SERIOUSLY NOW DUDE, YOU NEED TO TAKE THE TIME TO READ, THINK, THEN REREAD THE POSTS BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR COMMENT. YOU JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS WAY TO EARLY BY NOT GIVING INDIVIDUALS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THEIR POSITION CLEAR.
                  I WILL REPEAT THE SAYING "THE ONLY STUPID (NAIVE) QUESTION IS ONE THAT GOES UNASKED".


                  I AM NOT AT ALL WHINING ABOUT BEING BULLIED. HOW YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I WROTE ABOVE...YOU READ AND DO NOT GIVE YOUR BRAIN THE REQUIRED OPPORTUNITY TO DIGEST THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE JUST BEEN PRESENTED WITH. THANKS FOR MAKING MY OBSERVATION MORE CLEAR TO READERS.


                  FIRST, I SAID YOUR ACTIONS ARE THAT OF A BULLY. I AM NOT SAYING NOR DO I FEEL I WAS BULLIED IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.
                  I ALSO DO NOT, AS YOU CLAIM, REVEL IN VICTIMIZATION. I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF MY SELF AS A VICTIM IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. WHEN THINGS ARE SAID OR DONE TO ME THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH OR APPRECIATE, I GO ON TO DEFEND MYSELF AND DO NOT NEED ANY HELP IN DOING THAT. NOT EXACLY WHAT CAN BE DEFINED AS A VICTIM OF BULLYING.
                  WHAT I AM SAYING, AS YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND, IS THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU RESPOND TO OTHER POSTERS, ESPECIALLY WHEN PRESENTED WITH FACTS THAT SHOW YOU ARE INCORRECT WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION. I UNDERSTAND THAT...WHEN METAPHORICALLY BACKED AGAINST A WALL, LESSER PREPARED PEOPLE WILL LASH OUT IN ANGER AND WILL SAY THINGS THAT ARE NOT AT ALL RELEVENT TO THE MATTER BEING DISCUSSED. IT IS HUMAN NATURE AND BY MAKING THAT ANALYSIS OF YOU, I CONSIDER YOU A HUMAN AND STATE THAT BELIEF!


                  I LOVE WHEN YOU ARE FOUND TO BE WRONG IN YOUR ASSESSMENT OF SUBJECTS YOU SAY EITHER "THATS WEAK" OR "GO DO THE MATH". WHICH IS USUALLY INTERPRETED BY ANYONE WITH ANY LEVEL OF INTELLIGENCE AS A COMMENT MADE BY SOMEONE WHO IS ODing ON TESTOSTERONE. NOT NECCESSARILY PHARMACEUTICAL TESTOSTERONE, I MEAN RATHER NATURALLY PRODUCED TESTOSTERONE.
                  TO BREAK IT DOWN, SHOULD YOU ONCE AGAIN JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS BEFORE READING AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM IMPLYING, THE ALPHA MALE PART OF YOUR BRAIN KICKS IN AND YOU LASH OUT WITH WHATEVER HAPPENS TO POP INTO YOUR HEAD AS A MENTAL SHOW OF SUPERIORITY.
                  THAT SAID, DO I THINK YOU ARE A BAD PERSON OR DO I THINK YOU ARE AN EGO DRIVEN MAN? OF COURSE NOT, AS I HAVE COMMENTED TO YOU PREVISOULY I THINK YOU ARE A RATHER INTELLIGENT PERSON. YOU JUST DELIGHT IN TAKING UMBRAGE AND THEN ACT/SPEAK OUT AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU. PERHAPS YOUR MATURITY LEVEL HAS YET TO BE FULLY REALIZED. THAT ALONE IS NOT A BAD THING AS IT IS A PART OF GROWING UP AND REALIZING YOUR STRENGTHS.


                  TO ACCUSE A PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR HOLDING AN INDIVIDUAL OR ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE BACK IS ANOTHER WAY OF PROJECTING ANGER AT BEING FACED WITH FACTS THAT YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH.
                  ANYONE, ESPECIALLY NATIVE PEOPLE, WHO EARN AN EDUCATION AND WHO GO ON TO UTILIZE THAT EDUCATION TO FIND SUCCESS IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND THEM DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF HOLDING THEMSELVES OR THEIR PEOPLE BACK. THEY SHOW THOSE WHO FEEL THEMSELVES TO BE HELD BACK BY SOCIETAL STANDARDS, DISCRIMINATION AND IGNORANCE THAT THIS SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.
                  YOU CANNOT IMPLY THAT ANYONE IS HOLDING OUR PEOPLE BACK...THAT IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FEEL BULLIED AND THAT IS WHAT OTHERS PERCEIVE AS BEING WEAK, VULNERABLE AND OF NO USE OR VALUE.
                  "Sometimes the character of the opposition defines why something ought to be the most politically viable thing in the world that needs to be changed"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
                    TO ACCUSE A PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR HOLDING AN INDIVIDUAL OR ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE BACK IS ANOTHER WAY OF PROJECTING ANGER AT BEING FACED WITH FACTS THAT YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH.
                    ANYONE, ESPECIALLY NATIVE PEOPLE, WHO EARN AN EDUCATION AND WHO GO ON TO UTILIZE THAT EDUCATION TO FIND SUCCESS IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND THEM DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF HOLDING THEMSELVES OR THEIR PEOPLE BACK. THEY SHOW THOSE WHO FEEL THEMSELVES TO BE HELD BACK BY SOCIETAL STANDARDS, DISCRIMINATION AND IGNORANCE THAT THIS SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.
                    YOU CANNOT IMPLY THAT ANYONE IS HOLDING OUR PEOPLE BACK...THAT IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FEEL BULLIED AND THAT IS WHAT OTHERS PERCEIVE AS BEING WEAK, VULNERABLE AND OF NO USE OR VALUE.
                    Yeah, if only we really could hold SOME people back...sometimes...seriously though, not much personal responsibility if you are letting someone else hold you back.

                    I just find it's always women who bear the brunt of being accused of being victims and dumb. Is that because its the only way some men see them? That's not good. I think some men have trouble accepting that women are different and don't like it. They want women to be...well....men. ....hmmmm.... so if you don't like women, date men!

                    Comment


                    • sigpic

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Elo Janis View Post
                        I AM NOT AT ALL WHINING ABOUT BEING BULLIED. HOW YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION.
                        Not for anyone that can read.

                        What's with the whining in ALL CAPS, now?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by AmigoKumeyaay View Post

                          Some call it hijacking, I call it damming!!!!

                          Comment


                          • This all would make a great show...but put it on TLC...they love the drama!!

                            But this thread is going 'round and 'round..it would need to be edited for time.
                            ...it is what it is...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by zeke View Post
                              not for anyone that can read.

                              What's with the whining in all caps, now?
                              dont get your comment above?
                              And as far as doing all caps, i thoght if i shouted at you you'd understand the simple points i make to you. But no, not whining. You're not worth the effort.
                              "Sometimes the character of the opposition defines why something ought to be the most politically viable thing in the world that needs to be changed"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by wyo_rose View Post
                                This all would make a great show...but put it on TLC...they love the drama!!

                                But this thread is going 'round and 'round..it would need to be edited for time.
                                That would be more like BRAVO and besides, we could make it into a mini series.
                                Really though, now that I have my answer I am pretty much done with this thread.
                                Much thanks and respect to those of you who took time to share your wealth of knowledge with me regarding the use of this symbol. It has been very enlightening to see the story behind it.
                                I even got to speak with a few distant relatives who I had not spoken to in years, so good came out of it after all that...along with so much bad!
                                "Sometimes the character of the opposition defines why something ought to be the most politically viable thing in the world that needs to be changed"

                                Comment

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