Nazi design in Lakota beadwork late 1800s

[Toolbox]

It is the finding of the court that this thread be sentenced to be closed for life. If you would all like to discuss this topic again a new thread should be started and the discussion kept on track and not turned into another back and forth round and round bickerfest where the same points are made over and over again.

Concerns can be forwarded to a MOD or an Admin. You may also just report my post and it will go into the queue for the MODs and Admins to discuss.

Thank You all and happy posting!

[Spiritflight]

hum....

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[Zeke]

dont get your comment above?
And as far as doing all caps, i thoght if i shouted at you you'd understand the simple points i make to you. But no, not whining. You're not worth the effort.

whine...

[Elo Janis]

This all would make a great show...but put it on TLC...they love the drama!!

But this thread is going 'round and 'round..it would need to be edited for time.

That would be more like BRAVO and besides, we could make it into a mini series.
Really though, now that I have my answer I am pretty much done with this thread.
Much thanks and respect to those of you who took time to share your wealth of knowledge with me regarding the use of this symbol. It has been very enlightening to see the story behind it.
I even got to speak with a few distant relatives who I had not spoken to in years, so good came out of it after all that...along with so much bad!

[Elo Janis]

not for anyone that can read.

What's with the whining in all caps, now?

dont get your comment above?
And as far as doing all caps, i thoght if i shouted at you you'd understand the simple points i make to you. But no, not whining. You're not worth the effort.

[wyo_rose]

This all would make a great show...but put it on TLC...they love the drama!!

But this thread is going 'round and 'round..it would need to be edited for time.

[muskrat_skull]

Some call it hijacking, I call it damming!!!!

[Zeke]

I AM NOT AT ALL WHINING ABOUT BEING BULLIED. HOW YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION.

Not for anyone that can read.

What's with the whining in ALL CAPS, now?

[AmigoKumeyaay]

[muskrat_skull]

TO ACCUSE A PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR HOLDING AN INDIVIDUAL OR ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE BACK IS ANOTHER WAY OF PROJECTING ANGER AT BEING FACED WITH FACTS THAT YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH.
ANYONE, ESPECIALLY NATIVE PEOPLE, WHO EARN AN EDUCATION AND WHO GO ON TO UTILIZE THAT EDUCATION TO FIND SUCCESS IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND THEM DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF HOLDING THEMSELVES OR THEIR PEOPLE BACK. THEY SHOW THOSE WHO FEEL THEMSELVES TO BE HELD BACK BY SOCIETAL STANDARDS, DISCRIMINATION AND IGNORANCE THAT THIS SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.
YOU CANNOT IMPLY THAT ANYONE IS HOLDING OUR PEOPLE BACK...THAT IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FEEL BULLIED AND THAT IS WHAT OTHERS PERCEIVE AS BEING WEAK, VULNERABLE AND OF NO USE OR VALUE.

Yeah, if only we really could hold SOME people back...sometimes...seriously though, not much personal responsibility if you are letting someone else hold you back.

I just find it's always women who bear the brunt of being accused of being victims and dumb. Is that because its the only way some men see them? That's not good. I think some men have trouble accepting that women are different and don't like it. They want women to be...well....men. ....hmmmm.... so if you don't like women, date men!

[Elo Janis]

Except, of course, nothing was said about you, merely your (embarrassingly naive) opinion.
In sum, you whine about being bullied when only your (poorly conceived) rhetoric is being battered. That's not the mark of a bully, it's the mark of someone who revels in victimization, claiming it under any personally perceived duress.
Bottom line? That's weak.
Again, it's those who think as you do that hold us back.

SERIOUSLY NOW DUDE, YOU NEED TO TAKE THE TIME TO READ, THINK, THEN REREAD THE POSTS BEFORE YOU MAKE YOUR COMMENT. YOU JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS WAY TO EARLY BY NOT GIVING INDIVIDUALS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THEIR POSITION CLEAR.
I WILL REPEAT THE SAYING "THE ONLY STUPID (NAIVE) QUESTION IS ONE THAT GOES UNASKED".


I AM NOT AT ALL WHINING ABOUT BEING BULLIED. HOW YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUSION IS BEYOND COMPREHENSION. THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I WROTE ABOVE...YOU READ AND DO NOT GIVE YOUR BRAIN THE REQUIRED OPPORTUNITY TO DIGEST THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE JUST BEEN PRESENTED WITH. THANKS FOR MAKING MY OBSERVATION MORE CLEAR TO READERS.


FIRST, I SAID YOUR ACTIONS ARE THAT OF A BULLY. I AM NOT SAYING NOR DO I FEEL I WAS BULLIED IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.
I ALSO DO NOT, AS YOU CLAIM, REVEL IN VICTIMIZATION. I HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF MY SELF AS A VICTIM IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. WHEN THINGS ARE SAID OR DONE TO ME THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH OR APPRECIATE, I GO ON TO DEFEND MYSELF AND DO NOT NEED ANY HELP IN DOING THAT. NOT EXACLY WHAT CAN BE DEFINED AS A VICTIM OF BULLYING.
WHAT I AM SAYING, AS YOU STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND, IS THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU RESPOND TO OTHER POSTERS, ESPECIALLY WHEN PRESENTED WITH FACTS THAT SHOW YOU ARE INCORRECT WITH YOUR INTERPRETATION. I UNDERSTAND THAT...WHEN METAPHORICALLY BACKED AGAINST A WALL, LESSER PREPARED PEOPLE WILL LASH OUT IN ANGER AND WILL SAY THINGS THAT ARE NOT AT ALL RELEVENT TO THE MATTER BEING DISCUSSED. IT IS HUMAN NATURE AND BY MAKING THAT ANALYSIS OF YOU, I CONSIDER YOU A HUMAN AND STATE THAT BELIEF!


I LOVE WHEN YOU ARE FOUND TO BE WRONG IN YOUR ASSESSMENT OF SUBJECTS YOU SAY EITHER "THATS WEAK" OR "GO DO THE MATH". WHICH IS USUALLY INTERPRETED BY ANYONE WITH ANY LEVEL OF INTELLIGENCE AS A COMMENT MADE BY SOMEONE WHO IS ODing ON TESTOSTERONE. NOT NECCESSARILY PHARMACEUTICAL TESTOSTERONE, I MEAN RATHER NATURALLY PRODUCED TESTOSTERONE.
TO BREAK IT DOWN, SHOULD YOU ONCE AGAIN JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS BEFORE READING AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT I AM IMPLYING, THE ALPHA MALE PART OF YOUR BRAIN KICKS IN AND YOU LASH OUT WITH WHATEVER HAPPENS TO POP INTO YOUR HEAD AS A MENTAL SHOW OF SUPERIORITY.
THAT SAID, DO I THINK YOU ARE A BAD PERSON OR DO I THINK YOU ARE AN EGO DRIVEN MAN? OF COURSE NOT, AS I HAVE COMMENTED TO YOU PREVISOULY I THINK YOU ARE A RATHER INTELLIGENT PERSON. YOU JUST DELIGHT IN TAKING UMBRAGE AND THEN ACT/SPEAK OUT AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU. PERHAPS YOUR MATURITY LEVEL HAS YET TO BE FULLY REALIZED. THAT ALONE IS NOT A BAD THING AS IT IS A PART OF GROWING UP AND REALIZING YOUR STRENGTHS.


TO ACCUSE A PERSON OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE FOR HOLDING AN INDIVIDUAL OR ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE BACK IS ANOTHER WAY OF PROJECTING ANGER AT BEING FACED WITH FACTS THAT YOU DO NOT AGREE WITH.
ANYONE, ESPECIALLY NATIVE PEOPLE, WHO EARN AN EDUCATION AND WHO GO ON TO UTILIZE THAT EDUCATION TO FIND SUCCESS IN THEIR PERSONAL LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THOSE AROUND THEM DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF HOLDING THEMSELVES OR THEIR PEOPLE BACK. THEY SHOW THOSE WHO FEEL THEMSELVES TO BE HELD BACK BY SOCIETAL STANDARDS, DISCRIMINATION AND IGNORANCE THAT THIS SIMPLY IS NOT TRUE.
YOU CANNOT IMPLY THAT ANYONE IS HOLDING OUR PEOPLE BACK...THAT IS A MATTER OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE THIS FEEL BULLIED AND THAT IS WHAT OTHERS PERCEIVE AS BEING WEAK, VULNERABLE AND OF NO USE OR VALUE.

[Zeke]

...reminiscent of those made by grade school bullies.

Except, of course, nothing was said about you, merely your (embarrassingly naive) opinion.

In sum, you whine about being bullied when only your (poorly conceived) rhetoric is being battered.

That's not the mark of a bully, it's the mark of someone who revels in victimization, claiming it under any personally perceived duress.

Bottom line? That's weak.

Again, it's those who think as you do that hold us back.

[Elo Janis]

...cuz this thread is paddlin toward the waterfall

hehe funny comment!!
Credit and respect is due to those informed posters who took their valuable time to do some rather in depth research who were then kind enough to offer their results that served to make this of the most informational threads on the beading section, if not the entire forum.
If one were to take out the distracting and needless commentary, (including some made defending myself) this thread could be used as a reference for a History Channel documentary!!
The only way we learn is from asking questions about that which we do not know. Remember the saying "the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked"?

zeke, staying true to his irrelevant, testosterone laden method of posting then made this post:

"Everything else you've said is short-sighted, wrong, backwards, embarrassing, closeted and laughable.

Why would you NOT stand by other erroneous statements?

I'd have found it odd had you not."
which I just find to be so very...odd. You are firing a rifle that has no ammunition!
Closeted? Really? Laughable? Only to those who make, defend and enjoy mocking and inflammatory statements...reminiscent of those made by grade school bullies.

To sum up my thoughts on this informative thread, I will repost something Itzhecatl stated:

"That was a good thread everyone!
I agree, the bead-work threads usually don't have this much action.
Nicely done and thanks for all the energy invested!"

That's all...

[AmigoKumeyaay]

Maybe the History Channel can air a show about this symbol...

...cuz this thread is paddlin toward the waterfall

[Zeke]

Nah, forget it, I'll stand by my original comments about you and zeke...

Everything else you've said is short-sighted, wrong, backwards, embarrassing, closeted and laughable.

Why would you NOT stand by other erroneous statements?

I'd have found it odd had you not.