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Mandan and or Dog Soldier diagrams...

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  • Mandan and or Dog Soldier diagrams...

    forget about it..................................
    Last edited by theapostle; 05-24-2009, 10:15 PM. Reason: To many Chiones...on this website.....

  • #2
    I'm not sure, I know that there are quite a few paintings done in the 1830's that show them in great details.
    I'll see if I can find some information for you if you like.

    DISCLAIMER: Dog Sodlier Societies still exist, so wearing this without being of that society will probably be frowned upon. I've heard/seen people adapting it, and it's referenced in this thread: http://www.powwows.com/gathering/gen...headdress.html

    Something they pointed out is that the Dog Soldier society is of the Southern Cheyenne tribe, but it appears that this style of headdress was popular amoung a few tribes, since it shows up as Mandan also. It seems to me that alot of personalization also went into making these, as no two are the same, other than the use of a large quantity of black feathers with white tips. These could be Magpie tail feathers perhaps? I know that some headdresses have lengthy magpie tail feathers in the center, as well as turkey tail feathers towards the back as can be seen in Bodmer's painting of a Mandan wearing such a headdress.

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    • #3
      Michael "Bad Hand" Terry has one, here are a few images of his headdress.



      This last image shows the actual cap the feathers are attatched to, as well as some beadwork around the cap. Note that they appear to be attached relativly high on the cap. The lengthy sash he has on seems to distinguish him as a Dog Soldier, though pinning yourself to the ground in battle is something not exclusive to the Dog Soldiers and is practice by several other Societies from other tribes, Strong Heart Society for example.

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      • #4
        With all due respect.... You are asking for information many are going to consider inappropriate. There are many "rules" regarding the making and wearing of society regalia.

        Please understand, there is a right way to do these things and if it is ignored at best cultural integrity is attacked, at worst harm will follow. These things are not just a cool pieces of regalia and if they are no longer being made there is generally a reason. Any competent feather worker can do all of the techniques involved in making one of these. However, only those ignorant of the meaning would consider usurping the cultural and intellectual patrimony of a society/nation to do so.

        May I suggest you save yourself some grief and take tobacco to an member of the society in question. Ask them about your desire to include this head gear in your regalia. This is the only way to ensure that things are done in a right way.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by OLChemist View Post
          With all due respect.... You are asking for information many are going to consider inappropriate. There are many "rules" regarding the making and wearing of society regalia.

          Please understand, there is a right way to do these things and if it is ignored at best cultural integrity is attacked, at worst harm will follow. These things are not just a cool pieces of regalia and if they are no longer being made there is generally a reason. Any competent feather worker can do all of the techniques involved in making one of these. However, only those ignorant of the meaning would consider usurping the cultural and intellectual patrimony of a society/nation to do so.

          May I suggest you save yourself some grief and take tobacco to an member of the society in question. Ask them about your desire to include this head gear in your regalia. This is the only way to ensure that things are done in a right way.

          Coodn't have said it better.
          This is good advice and i highly recommend it. Even for general things such as me learning fancy shawl, I offered tobacco tie to someone i was told could help me and even tho she had never recieved a tie before and had to ask her dad what to do with it, it was still acknowledged as a respectable act and they welcomed me with open arms.

          BTW Those pics are purty hawt!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Asmajol View Post
            Coodn't have said it better.
            This is good advice and i highly recommend it. Even for general things such as me learning fancy shawl, I offered tobacco tie to someone i was told could help me and even tho she had never recieved a tie before and had to ask her dad what to do with it, it was still acknowledged as a respectable act and they welcomed me with open arms.

            BTW Those pics are purty hawt!
            I tried to impart this same advice in my little disclaimer, but the previous poster did a far better job at it :-)

            You can find more pictures by the way on Michael Terry's website, he does some amazing work.
            Michael Bad Hand Terry

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            • #7
              Originally posted by FireAndFlint View Post
              I tried to impart this same advice in my little disclaimer, but the previous poster did a far better job at it :-)

              You can find more pictures by the way on Michael Terry's website, he does some amazing work.
              Michael Bad Hand Terry
              Oh completely! Your post rocked to :)
              Picking and choosing pieces of different traditions seems almost disgruntled. Just because Certain heritage has distinct style that one may fancy doesnt mean false representation is the way to go. I adore certain regalia that just isnt right for me because its nothing my ancestors would have worn like fully beaded buckskin tops

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Asmajol View Post
                Oh completely! Your post rocked to :)
                Picking and choosing pieces of different traditions seems almost disgruntled. Just because Certain heritage has distinct style that one may fancy doesnt mean false representation is the way to go. I adore certain regalia that just isnt right for me because its nothing my ancestors would have worn like fully beaded buckskin tops
                Agreed. I think the dog soldiers are pretty badass, but they're an existing society so wearing their regalia would be pretty silly if I'm not versed in the particulars of that society. Its like wearing a police uniform but not knowing anything about being a policeman.

                Although, there are many different types of those headdresses and some even seem to show up in use by non-society members, historically. So I'm guessing there were adapted versions. I know on the east coast the Seneca have a similar headdress, but they use different feathers (usually a mixture of different birds of prey) and they're not nearly as long. So I guess if that general type of headdress appeals to someone they can make a non-society specific style that I doubt would be a problem. But finding out if your tribe wore those would be necessary, unless you feel like setting a new trend. After all, it's not the most outrageous thing for ideas and styles to cross between tribes. In many places, powwows themselves were not traditionally practiced in the sense they are today. And many dance styles are not traditional in the sense that if you went back 50 odd years noone on a rez would know what you were talking about if you mentioned certain styles.

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                • #9
                  Head Dress

                  WOW.....Thank you I think??? I should probably rephrase my question....now i am not some wasicu (no offense) lol asking well ,...you know the kind of stuff they ask...I have been a dancer for about 15 years and am a member of the sicangu Lakota nation...the reason I was asking was or is because I am trying to make the "POWWOW STYLE" Dog Soldier "type" for lack of a better word afro type headress for a Young brother cuz I said id help...(what do I know about them I wear a roach) I see tons worn by warm spring indians , washington guys, Schemitzen, powows.com you know "EVERYWHERE" so what I was looking for were how to diagrams of said "POWOW HEADRESS" now does any body have any or would not mind sharing how i would be greatful ...No offense by the way Kolas...:ust sharing...Wopila Tanka..Dokca

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                  • #10
                    You mean like the one Louis is wearing in the picture on the left?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by between2worlds View Post
                      You mean like the one Louis is wearing in the picture on the left?

                      Ya bro just like that , see how full it looks, I have actually made one before and am making one for someone like I said but it just seems not to be as full looking as that ...thats why I was looking for a diagram and a how to response cuz I hear that some people use bunches of feathers instead of just sewing each individually...but I dont know to much about other techniques just what I learned up in the oregon, washington area...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by theapostle View Post
                        WOW.....Thank you I think??? I should probably rephrase my question....now i am not some wasicu (no offense) lol asking well ,...you know the kind of stuff they ask...I have been a dancer for about 15 years and am a member of the sicangu Lakota nation...the reason I was asking was or is because I am trying to make the "POWWOW STYLE" Dog Soldier "type" for lack of a better word afro type headress for a Young brother cuz I said id help...(what do I know about them I wear a roach) I see tons worn by warm spring indians , washington guys, Schemitzen, powows.com you know "EVERYWHERE" so what I was looking for were how to diagrams of said "POWOW HEADRESS" now does any body have any or would not mind sharing how i would be greatful ...No offense by the way Kolas...:ust sharing...Wopila Tanka..Dokca
                        Call it a 'mop-top' and you won't get in trouble!


                        Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


                        "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

                        Mr. Rossie Freeman

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