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  • Imitation Feathers

    Is it appropriate to use high quality imitation eagle, hawk, etc feathers in your regalia? Would it be possible to win dance competitions with imitation feahters? I sing southern and sometimes at pow wows you can hear comments and remarks about regalia being "fake". So is it acceptable and practical?

  • #2
    Sure, it's ok to wear imitation stuff...but it says a lot about you.


    Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


    "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

    Mr. Rossie Freeman

    Comment


    • #3
      ouccccccccch
      Joe's Dad now you are really being nice!!!
      I am of the same opion though I wouldn't have a fake feather in my hand. I was blessed with a bag of fakes, they ended up on the giveaway blanket as they do not even talk to me no matter how artsy the person can be, fake is afterall fake ,,, so to put real honesty to it, would you dance fake????
      LOL not me!
      Listen to my heart, not just my mouth! The most powerfull thing we can do is,,,share,,, if we don't it dies with us.

      It is the year of the bear, I am sharpening my claws and will no longer tollerate harrassment.

      Born in Winnipeg raised in the Pikwakanagan, Deutschland was never home! Army brat that had no choice in a parents duties to home and country. I Too Serve our flag and work for the uniform.
      Stand behind our troops or stand IN FRONT of them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
        Sure, it's ok to wear imitation stuff...but it says a lot about you.
        what if it says..."I am a native...however, eagle parts are hard to come by and difficult to get, therefore I'm still going to dance for those who can't and show my pride and heartfelt will to dance...even without all the real feathers."

        We must remember that every Native American in the U.S. cannot possess eagle parts. We should never look down on our native brother and sisters who cannot possess these sacared items. However, we should look down on the ones who kill and poach them for no reason. They are the ones that make it hard on everybody else

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by artisticndn View Post
          what if it says..."I am a native...however, eagle parts are hard to come by and difficult to get, therefore I'm still going to dance for those who can't and show my pride and heartfelt will to dance...even without all the real feathers."

          We must remember that every Native American in the U.S. cannot possess eagle parts. We should never look down on our native brother and sisters who cannot possess these sacared items. However, we should look down on the ones who kill and poach them for no reason. They are the ones that make it hard on everybody else
          You didn't say this to begin with..."I am a native...however, eagle parts are hard to come by and difficult to get, therefore I'm still going to dance for those who can't and show my pride and heartfelt will to dance...even without all the real feathers."

          You asked about dancing competition with imitation feathers and if it was possible to win. Dancing for those who have gone on before us, and for those who can't dance, is not the same thing a dancing in competition, or battle, to be the best. Don't get them confused...unless you don't know the difference.

          Let me say this again...

          Sure, it's ok to wear imitation stuff...but it says a lot about you.


          Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


          "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

          Mr. Rossie Freeman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
            You didn't say this to begin with..."I am a native...however, eagle parts are hard to come by and difficult to get, therefore I'm still going to dance for those who can't and show my pride and heartfelt will to dance...even without all the real feathers."

            You asked about dancing competition with imitation feathers and if it was possible to win. Dancing for those who have gone on before us, and for those who can't dance, is not the same thing a dancing in competition, or battle, to be the best. Don't get them confused...unless you don't know the difference.

            Let me say this again...

            Sure, it's ok to wear imitation stuff...but it says a lot about you.
            I am very aware of the diffrence between the two. I dance Northern Traditional with a full eagle bustle that I'm very proud of. I cherish it for what it represents and the respect of the golden eagle it came from. However, we should never look down on those who dance with imitation feathers...whether it be competiton, exhibition, for fun, or for someone who has past on or who can no longer dance.
            With a government so tight on birds of prey parts, it should be expected to see imitation items (feathers, eagle feet, etc.) at pow wows.

            If wearing imitation "stuff" says a lot about you....well it's up to the wearer to determine what they want to express.

            Unfortunately having eagle parts or not seems to determine a lot about Natives...even though it shouldn't.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by artisticndn View Post
              I am very aware of the diffrence between the two. I dance Northern Traditional with a full eagle bustle that I'm very proud of. I cherish it for what it represents and the respect of the golden eagle it came from. However, we should never look down on those who dance with imitation feathers...whether it be competiton, exhibition, for fun, or for someone who has past on or who can no longer dance.
              With a government so tight on birds of prey parts, it should be expected to see imitation items (feathers, eagle feet, etc.) at pow wows.

              If wearing imitation "stuff" says a lot about you....well it's up to the wearer to determine what they want to express.

              Unfortunately having eagle parts or not seems to determine a lot about Natives...even though it shouldn't.
              Maybe you're missing the point. I don't think I said you should look down at people who wear imitation stuff. It's not me to tell you what to wear. You asked about competition. Unless you're a Dancing Diva (sorry, Iowa_Boy) it's going to be very hard for imitation feathers to beat real feathers.

              If you wear a Golden bustle, put on the fake feathers and see if you still get the same respect in competition.


              Why must I feel like that..why must I chase the cat?


              "When I was young man I did some dumb things and the elders would talk to me. Sometimes I listened. Time went by and as I looked around...I was the elder".

              Mr. Rossie Freeman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
                Maybe you're missing the point. I don't think I said you should look down at people who wear imitation stuff. It's not me to tell you what to wear. You asked about competition. Unless you're a Dancing Diva (sorry, Iowa_Boy) it's going to be very hard for imitation feathers to beat real feathers.

                If you wear a Golden bustle, put on the fake feathers and see if you still get the same respect in competition.
                Diva? I'm confused, if the guys got feathers, then why is he asking about having the imitations?

                why is he asking the question, what is the real reason?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Iowa_Boy View Post
                  Diva? I'm confused, if the guys got feathers, then why is he asking about having the imitations?

                  why is he asking the question, what is the real reason?
                  This was my first post in the forum. I just wanted to know how people felt about a question that I've heard many variations on. I don't personally use imitations....was just curious as to the responses and feedback the question would generate. :D

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by artisticndn View Post
                    This was my first post in the forum. I just wanted to know how people felt about a question that I've heard many variations on. I don't personally use imitations....was just curious as to the responses and feedback the question would generate. :D
                    Trying posting in repsonse to other peoples posts first. Get a feel for the site and the inhabitants. Learn that what you type can be taken in many different ways by many different people. Be ready to clarify your posts if need be. But mostly, wait your turn.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Joe's Dad View Post
                      Maybe you're missing the point. I don't think I said you should look down at people who wear imitation stuff. It's not me to tell you what to wear. You asked about competition. Unless you're a Dancing Diva (sorry, Iowa_Boy) it's going to be very hard for imitation feathers to beat real feathers.

                      If you wear a Golden bustle, put on the fake feathers and see if you still get the same respect in competition.
                      People are taking JD's opinion and then adding to it.....like he said, there's nothing mentioned in any of his posts about how anyone should view someone else. What he DID do however was bring up a valid point...Gots nice digs, and your chances of winning go up. It's not a hard concept to grasp, and it's just plain true. I don't think anyone needs to argue pros or cons, or whether is right or wrong...it's just the way it is people, and you all know it.
                      As for my opinion.. If you want to win, if you want to say something about yourself, powwow is the same as anything else in life. Take TIME, save MONEY, and WORK at having a nice outfit. First I'd like to come out and say that while I have quite a competitive streak to me, typically, I don't contest. I do like presenting myself well, and I try to let my outfit do the talking. One thing I've learned long ago was attention to detail. A simple outfit can go a long way if attention is paid to the little details that can make an outfit nice. Edge beading, fine stitching, narrow even fringe, smaller beads, more expensive hide or wool, real feathers rather than fake; these are just some examples of how to make an outfit say something about its wearer.
                      Now I know there's folks out there right now thinking "well, we all cant be made of money", and no we cant. But anyone can prioritize anyway we want. Right now for example I'm working on beading a traditional outfit. This Nov. I will still be working on it, and that will be my two year mark. I expect to have it done by this summer, so that will be about 2.5 years just on one of my outfits. So far it hasn't cost me that much over that time.
                      Here's another illustration, Some of you know I have another hobby, long range tactical shooting. Since delving into that world, I have learned 3 important lessons. lesson 1 is..You don't have to be rich to have nice things. I started out with a simple, yet reliable rifle that I can upgrade or customize as I can afford. I reload ammo rather than buy sto bought. I'm not jumping in with both feet all at once. Lesson 2 is..Buy once, cry once. This simply means buy the absolute best you can afford first. You will cry because of the initial expense, but your purchase will last you and yield better results, rather than buying and replacing the same junk over and over. Lesson 3 is..You get what you pay for. Self explanatory, not only in terms of money, but also in a "you get out of it what you put into it" kinda way.

                      And oh for pete's sake...eagles aren't THAT hard to get a hold of....stop acting like eagle parts are some form of unobtainium. If you doubt me, you haven't been going to too many powwows.
                      So I put my hands up, they're playin' my song
                      The butterflies fly away
                      I'm noddin' my head like "Yeah!"
                      Movin' my hips like "Yeah!"
                      -Miley Cyrus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ewoaf View Post
                        People are taking JD's opinion and then adding to it.....like he said, there's nothing mentioned in any of his posts about how anyone should view someone else. What he DID do however was bring up a valid point...Gots nice digs, and your chances of winning go up. It's not a hard concept to grasp, and it's just plain true. I don't think anyone needs to argue pros or cons, or whether is right or wrong...it's just the way it is people, and you all know it.
                        As for my opinion.. If you want to win, if you want to say something about yourself, powwow is the same as anything else in life. Take TIME, save MONEY, and WORK at having a nice outfit. First I'd like to come out and say that while I have quite a competitive streak to me, typically, I don't contest. I do like presenting myself well, and I try to let my outfit do the talking. One thing I've learned long ago was attention to detail. A simple outfit can go a long way if attention is paid to the little details that can make an outfit nice. Edge beading, fine stitching, narrow even fringe, smaller beads, more expensive hide or wool, real feathers rather than fake; these are just some examples of how to make an outfit say something about its wearer.
                        Now I know there's folks out there right now thinking "well, we all cant be made of money", and no we cant. But anyone can prioritize anyway we want. Right now for example I'm working on beading a traditional outfit. This Nov. I will still be working on it, and that will be my two year mark. I expect to have it done by this summer, so that will be about 2.5 years just on one of my outfits. So far it hasn't cost me that much over that time.
                        Here's another illustration, Some of you know I have another hobby, long range tactical shooting. Since delving into that world, I have learned 3 important lessons. lesson 1 is..You don't have to be rich to have nice things. I started out with a simple, yet reliable rifle that I can upgrade or customize as I can afford. I reload ammo rather than buy sto bought. I'm not jumping in with both feet all at once. Lesson 2 is..Buy once, cry once. This simply means buy the absolute best you can afford first. You will cry because of the initial expense, but your purchase will last you and yield better results, rather than buying and replacing the same junk over and over. Lesson 3 is..You get what you pay for. Self explanatory, not only in terms of money, but also in a "you get out of it what you put into it" kinda way.

                        And oh for pete's sake...eagles aren't THAT hard to get a hold of....stop acting like eagle parts are some form of unobtainium. If you doubt me, you haven't been going to too many powwows.

                        YES, and now for a powwow example (I don;t know guns). A good roach is good, a great roach is great. And yes they cost a buttload, but, once you get it, wow. build an outfit over time, start simple and upgrade when you can, but there are areas you cannot cut corners on. Champion dancers have great stuff. Non-champion dancers who just dance at trad powwows have great stuff too. Part of it is awareness, pride, and hard work. Oh, and time.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There is a whole other line of thought voiced long ago before contest powwows became the norm. Maybe 20 or more years ago, I can remember hearing elders here in OK saying that real eagle feathers shouldn't be worn in contests because that was dancing for money. I realized that sounds like hearesy in today's powwow world, but years ago contests were held by holding a drumstick over the heads of the competing dancers and judging the audience applause. There was little or no money involved, and dancers were supposed to be judged by their dancing skills, not their outfit. That has all changed today. If there are any other old-timers out there, they can back me up. My 2nd thought on this subject is that as a vendor, we've sold high quality immitation feathers (when we have them) for use by kids, such as roach feathers. SOME kids simply aren't careful enough to use real eagle feathers. Many of us have cringed at the sight of a small child carrying black & white tail fan half as big as they are, who aren't even old enough to be as careful with the feathers as they should be. I don't want to hear any lectures about how your kids are taught respect, blah blah blah. Some kids aren't careful enough, period.
                          Janet Littlecrow
                          Littlecrow Trading Post, LLC
                          www.littlecrowtradingpost.com

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                          • #14
                            I second Mrs. Littlecrow......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jlittlecrow View Post
                              There is a whole other line of thought voiced long ago before contest powwows became the norm. Maybe 20 or more years ago, I can remember hearing elders here in OK saying that real eagle feathers shouldn't be worn in contests because that was dancing for money. I realized that sounds like hearesy in today's powwow world, but years ago contests were held by holding a drumstick over the heads of the competing dancers and judging the audience applause. There was little or no money involved, and dancers were supposed to be judged by their dancing skills, not their outfit. That has all changed today. If there are any other old-timers out there, they can back me up. My 2nd thought on this subject is that as a vendor, we've sold high quality immitation feathers (when we have them) for use by kids, such as roach feathers. SOME kids simply aren't careful enough to use real eagle feathers. Many of us have cringed at the sight of a small child carrying black & white tail fan half as big as they are, who aren't even old enough to be as careful with the feathers as they should be. I don't want to hear any lectures about how your kids are taught respect, blah blah blah. Some kids aren't careful enough, period.
                              EEEEExactly!! As for the original question, it sounded more like someone asking to state an opinion rather than really find out what people thought..I think he already knew the answers he'd hear.
                              Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

                              Comment

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