Hard sole mocs tutorial

[hockeyfan_019]

Yes PWB, I guess I also stretch "a little" but I remember one pair where I had the heel off by more than 1"! I must've not been paying attention, cause that was really a terrible fit! If I am doing a good job, I won't need to trim more than 1/2" during the "heel fit" stage...

The reason this interests me so much, is I've made several pair where the future owner (gift pairs) were not readily available, and I wanted a "perfect" fit right out of the gate. I've tried to make sure I didn't stretch too much, so I could have a good fit right away, without having to be refit afterward.

When a couple pair didn't line up at the heel, I figured "oh well" and then trimmed away the excess along the sole until the 1/2s of the uppers fit flush, WITHOUT having the owner try them on... Long story short, it's always possible to cut excess leather OFF a pattern, but NOT to ADD another 1/2" back on! Too big is better than too small.

Thanks,
Tom

[powwowbum49]

Yelloweyes

Thanks video that was mentioned is notorious for producing 'baggy' upper. For the most part though you will always have some excess hide to cut off at the heal seem and is not necessarily a bad thing, but excess from side to side on moc will cause the 'baggy' thang everytime and should be avoided. There are several things that can help cut down on this happening when you are making your mocs.

Every hide has some stretch too it and some have more than others, the trick is finding the ones that do not stretch excessively. You see hides stretch more from side to side than from head to butt of the hide. Also, a hide will stretch more near the stomach (which is the outer side edges of a hide), than it does along the back bone. When you lay the upper pattern out on the hide avoid the temptation of maximizing the hide use because of this stretch factor. By this I mean make sure that the leather under the pattern is as even in thickness as possible and that what stretch that is there runs from toe to heal of your pattern and not across the moc.

Now, I disagree with hockeyfan in that I do stretch the upper as I sew it around the mocs. I do not tork the heck out of it but I keep the hide smooth and snug as I sew it around the toe and back to the arch.

Now when I make my patterns I trace the foot with the persons weight on it (which if the moc is for yourself means having someone else trace it for you) and before the weight is removed I measure across the arch of the foot (which is about where your shoe string tie on a normal low top tennis shoe) and mark the sole where that measurement was taken. I then run a line down the center of the moc sole (this line runs from the measured center of the heel to the big toe side of the center toe and I often mark this front mark when I am tracing the foot) and then I draw a line across the pattern between the arch marks making sure that this line is as close to 90 degrees from the heel/toe line as possible by eye. The I use the arch measurement to continue the arch line out to size. (ie. If the arch measurement is 8" then put 4" on either side of the heel toe line and do not add the extra length that the video suggests.) Now after rounding the sole to shape, draw your upper pattern using the these marks. Just swing the line out from about a 1/8-1/4" in front of the toes out to the ends of the arch line, then use a ruler to run a line on back from that toward the heel along that same curve shape.( the finished pattern should look a bit like an inverted V, except for the rounded area at the toe)

Not sure if you will be able to understand this without the picture I had planned to accompany these instructions, but with any luck I have made it clear enough.

[hockeyfan_019]

powwowbum49 thanks for the reply and I see all the great work you have done... here is the problem

I get the soles done when doing the uppers they always end up wider and longer than the soles....so how do you get the measurements for the uppers to fit. Hope this is not confusing...I usually have to do quite a bit of cutting before I can do the beading

Hi Yelloweyes,

Not sure if this will help you, but hopefully it will make some sense...

When I layout my patterns, I make a point near the front of the sole, and I mark it on the inside of the piece with a line. Then I make another point on the very back of the sole with another line. When I make the pattern for the upper, I lay a string on the outline of the sole, starting at the point in the front, all the way around until I get to the line in the back. Then I know exactly how far "around" the upper will need to be to fit the sole exactly...

One other point that makes a big difference... DON'T STRETCH THE UPPER AS YOU STITCH! I know it doesn't feel like you are stretching, but sine the upper is ususally a bit thinner/weaker than the sole, when you pull the seam tight as you stitch, the upper stretches a bit more. Not much, but at 8 stitches per incs, and probably around 12" per side, that's alot of stretch after 96 stitches!

I have heard another good idea, but I have not tried it (lazy me I guess)... Put a mark exactly every 1" along your uppers and lowers, on the inside of the mocs... While you stitch, make sure you keep these marks lined up. Then, you can make sure you are not stretching every 1", and you don't get a rude surprise when you get to the heel...

hth, Tom

[Yelloweyes]

powwowbum49 thanks for the reply and I see all the great work you have done... here is the problem

I get the soles done when doing the uppers they always end up wider and longer than the soles....so how do you get the measurements for the uppers to fit. Hope this is not confusing...I usually have to do quite a bit of cutting before I can do the beading

[powwowbum49]

Yelloweyes

I have been trying to take photos of the rest of the process so that I can finish posting this thread. The down side has been that I am so busy getting roach orders out the door, my time for the mocs I have been working on is severely limited. I may shift from the mocs I was making for me to a couple of pair I have to make for my nieces (since my wife volunteered to make the girls a new southern cloth set each), because kids mocs are so much faster to make.

If you tell me what kinda problem you are having when sewing the upper to the sole maybe I can help.

[Yelloweyes]

Well after much searching I found this tutorial again to see if the answer to "How to fit the upper to lower" was there. I got the video on how to make mocs, but I still have trouble. Can you explain????? Maybe I can figure out what I am doing wrong.

[Blackbear]

well you are'nt supposed to go all the way through the hide and sometimes if they are'nt stitched into enough of the hide, the threads will pop back through the hide and hang in one big beadwork line.

[C_Rock77]

Originally posted by SPAMDANCER
Pard:
okay I'll admit , I lose. I tried to sew one of the moccs and as soon as I turned it inside out most of the beadwork popped off, so that sucked , I had to got back through and sew all the little edges up agian . Rob young

HOW did the beadwork pop off?

[MAROONDANCER]

Pard:
okay I'll admit , I lose. I tried to sew one of the moccs and as soon as I turned it inside out most of the beadwork popped off, so that sucked , I had to got back through and sew all the little edges up agian .


Rob young

[C_Rock77]

I bought kits, too when I got started. You just usually don't get as much for your money.

As for their gold buckskin being like butter.....
I used to think that.....until I did some beadwork on brain-tan. Once you go brain-tanned, you'll never go back to commercial tan! I PROMISE you!

Up until I got my hands on some german or brain-tanned, I was like, "WHY would you want to pay these outrageous prices for brain-tanned leather?!" Get a sample of their german-tanned, or some brain tanned. Try beading on it. It's SO much easier to get a needle through. I've beaded on their gold buckskin, before. I'm telling you, there's NO comparison! You'll see. Call up a place that brain tans and get a sample of their leather. You can pretty much bead almost twice as fast with better results on brain-tanned.

BTW, If you'd be interested, I'll cut you a set of white latigo soles from my stash for around $10. It's a lot better than the stuff I've gotten from CCTP.

I'm not bad-mouthing CCTP. I buy a lot of their stuff, and Rex Reddick is a good guy. It's just that some things they carry are much better than others, and there's no way to know until you get it.

A piece of advice....
Try to find some good knife-edged shears (scissors) to cut your leather with. They're stout enough and sharp enough to cut latigo, and you won't run the risk of slicing your finger. I haven't had any problems cutting leather (latigo or otherwise) with scissors. I just find it easier. X-Acto knives are nice, but one slip, and you ruin your piece or slice a finger.

[MAROONDANCER]

Pard:
1. I didn't buy the kit.
2. i'm going to make another set later
3. i'm only learning , this is the best way to learn, make it using the kit then move on to make the better pair
4.By the way my mother didn't buy me commercial tanned cowhide. she got me the gold buckskin.
5. the stuff I got with the kit is really easy to bead on it's like butter.

Rob young

[C_Rock77]

Buying the Crazy Crow kit was your first mistake. CCTP has some good materials, but the materials in the kits aren't usually the best. The buckskin (or cowhide) they sell you in the kits sucks. Commercial tan is HARD to bead on, to say the least.

For your next pair, I'd suggest trying out their German Tan leather. It's as close to brain-tan as you can get without paying through the nose! It's not as soft as brain-tan, but it's close enough for the money.

I've seen the latigo CCTP uses for soles, and I must admit, yes, it sucks. It's more like belt leather than what I'd consider latigo. The latigo I've used was great. It's a white color and VERY stiff. I'd say it's second only to rawhide.

[MAROONDANCER]

Pards:
sorry I've been kinda MIA the last few weeks . I've been beading my new moccs. My parents asked me what I needed left in my regalia and they got me a Moccisins kit from crazy crow with the latigo soles . Right now I'm finishing up beading my first mocc and i still haveone more left to go. the only thing I've found so far is that latigo sucks to work with . I know I'll get allot of crap for this but I've worked with rawhide before and latigo sucks. I've broken 2 exacto-knives and have a real nice cut on my index finger to show for it, but hey! just show's I'm doing something instead of sitting around all day, i am feeling kinda weak sooo I'll saygoood buhh*faint's from lack of blood*

[C_Rock77]

I've never made any with rawhide soles. I'd like to try it, sometime. White Latigo has worked really well for me in the past. Not to mention I have a boat load of it at home. Some Leather tannery was selling "scraps" at a powwow I went to. These "scraps" were about 2 ft wide at their widest and were pretty long. It was the stuff they couldn't use to cut straps, I guess. It looks like the pieces that were cut off to square up the hides before they start cutting straps. It's perfectly fine to cut soles from.

Anyone need some good white Latigo for soles? I'll sell u some ;).

[Czechy]

I like that video too. It is great for those wanting to learn to make mocs with latigo or harness leather soles. My only complaint is that there is no mention of how to work with rawhide soles. There are a couple things that have to be done differently. Maybe in the next edition.....