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Duck and Dive

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  • Duck and Dive

    I was wondering what people thought of the use of duck and dive songs.

    Recently I have seen duck and dives used an awful lot for Chicken Dance. I thought that the chicken dance paid homage the prairie chicken and that the duck and dives tells the story of battles (for example some elders have said the battle of Whitebird). If that is true, then the dance and song would not seem appropriate for each other.

    I know that it is a good song that moves the people and gets the dancers going, but it seems that it should be reserved more men's traditional, or warriors and veterans dances.

    Just my opinion. I would love to hear from everybody else.
    It is so sad that a family can torn apart by something as simple as a wild pack of dogs.

  • #2
    Duck and Dive

    You are right Knee-Grow Native, Prarie Chicken Dance songs have their own songs, separate from Duck and Dive songs. The combining of Duck and Dive with Prarie Chicken Dance competitions is a "new" trend. Sadly, our modern pow-wows will justify the Duck and Dives use in these contests as acceptable in their modern day interpretation. I remember when the Crow Hop type of songs started appearing in the Womens Fancy Shawl Dance and how mixed feelings were then. Many strongly objected to their use. However, again, modern interpretation and large audiences and money blind what is proper in tradition and today it is commonplace to hear Crow Hop type songs in Womens fancy Shawl Dance contests. I tell you if we could turn back our clocks back to when more elders were around we would not see half the things that are done at our pow-wows today because the elders would object strongly! That is fact!
    Northwest MH


    • #3
      They do the same thing with Horse Stealing and Trot songs.

      It's usually the emcee that messes up, says let's have a horse stealing song then instructs the drum to sing a trot. Wish they could all get it straight!!!!!

      Maybe Emcee 101 needs to be taught somewheres!!!!!!!


      • #4
        Duck and Dive

        Shoot whatchyall talkin about? Duck and Dive originated from the Crows of Montana....I hear other tribes talkin about how they created it and shyt...its all bull! Crowz created the dance and the songs so dont be tryin to claim it!!! About the Crow Warriors dodging bullets from the calvary while counting coup and stealing horses!!!! Go to CROW FAIR and you might learn all about it!!!!PEACE!!! Oh yea, chicken dancers and dance the song kick a$$!!!!!! Dont be acting all traditional when you know money powwows are all seemingly contemporary!!!!!

        Crowboi from Montana!!!!!!!
        4 life and full blood
        the ruffler


        • #5
          Go crowboi, go crowboi, go!!


          • #6
            As some of the Crow Style dancers call it...

            "Dodge the bullet"

            Yall crow stylerz know what I should be talkin about!
            the ruffler


            • #7
              I didn't start this to argue over what tribe made the first duck and dive. More than a few tribes have laid claim to creating the dance. However the song that is predominately used where I live has it's origins from a particular battle. I was expressing my opinion about the correct use of the style.

              I have asked people about the origins of these songs. Whether it be from Crow country or any other place the reply has been the same. The song depicts battle. What does the chicken dance depict?

              So are we to throw tradition to the wind?

              I got an idea, lets start making women's traditional get down on a knee and to a sneak up. Or better yet, lets really throw tradition out the door and permit drugs and alcohol on the arena. Damn, homie, I thought ya knew.

              Ya know CrowBoi, at the pow-wow whether it be for money or not, there are still customs that we follow. Money isn't a good enough reason to throw traditions out the window. Is that something that you are prepared to do? Sounds like it.

              Some of these dances were made for a specific reason for specific dances. When you use them for the wrong reason you run the risk of getting yourself embarrassed at a pow-wow.

              It is so sad that a family can torn apart by something as simple as a wild pack of dogs.


              • #8

                Crow dancers, like the Chicken dancers, also imitate the prairie chicken. So if Crow stylerz can dance duck & dive, how come Chicken dancers can't?

                Who should dance duck & dive then? Just because you're a Chicken dancer, does that mean you shouldn't go out and dodge sum bullets? Hmmmmm...........
                Last edited by Siale; 09-11-2002, 05:03 PM.
                "I'm so fresh and you so not..." ~ Dvera


                • #9
                  I just asked mah boy what he thought of this subject....LOL....he's like, "Personally, I ain't got a problem with it as long as they're not dancing duck & dive during a chicken dance song." LoLz....

                  :Tongue :Tongue :Tongue :Tongue
                  Last edited by Siale; 09-12-2002, 10:03 AM.
                  "I'm so fresh and you so not..." ~ Dvera


                  • #10
                    Sure chicken dancers can be warriors. I never said they couldn't.

                    But during a chicken dance are these dancers supposed to be paying homage to the prairie chicken? If you are going to incorporate battle depiction into a chicken dance, then why not invite all the other warriors out as well.

                    I gotta admit I am picky about the uses of the duck and dives. I think that they are much abused songs. I think that they should be reserved for dances for the warriors, whether they dance chicken, crow, tradish, straigh, grass, fancy, etc.
                    It is so sad that a family can torn apart by something as simple as a wild pack of dogs.


                    • #11
                      Kneegrow native-----------Oklahoma straight dancers don't Duck and Dive......they don't chicken dance either-------It's not their dance.

                      Unless you are Crow - quit *****in'. Been to Crow Fair, saw the REAL Duck and Dive and Crow Style......Seen it in Oklahoma at times and believe me it's not the same. Chicken dance in Oklahoma seems to be different too.

                      Not complaining, like you......if you don't want to see it - don't watch.


                      • #12
                        I got an idea, lets start making women's traditional get down on a knee and to a sneak up.
                        Ya might be too late, sort of. Don't the fancy shawlers do something like a sneak-up and call it a "shake" ?
                        "Friends don't let friends drink decaf..."
                        Wakalapi's $49 unlimited phone service


                        • #13
                          You got that right!

                          Siale.......YOU DA MAN.....or should i sa wo-MAN! hahaha! Couldn't have said it better myself.
                          Chicken dance is a style, just as Crow style, southern straight, northern contemporary, grass etc., and a lot of these STYLES dance sneak up, crow hop, chicken, trot, duck & dive, etc. I don't understand what the problem is with a chicken dancer doin' the duck & dive? Contemporary tradish dancers do the chicken, as well as the duck & dive, is that wrong? Doesn't make much sense to me! It's a style of dance that coincides with a category in todays powwows.
                          Yea, the chicken dancers do imitate the prairie chicken....but not all powwows host a category for Chicken only, haven't you seen them in northern tradish categories, is this wrong? should they not take part in the sneak up as well? Be easy kneegrow_native!

                          *BE EASY*


                          • #14
                            I also say let 'em duck n dive.

                            This may be a new "trend". But this may also be called evolution.

                            Way back in history this dance may have been done different..........but this is how the dance evolved, or changed. I wouldn't say that we are throwing tradition into the wind......

                            Why just pick out the prairie chicken dance if you want to pick on dance styles and how they've changed?? All of our dance categories have seen some change over the years!!


                            • #15
                              Re: Duck and Dive

                              Originally posted by Crowboi
                              Dont be acting all traditional
                              Man...everyone on should take that home w/dem...hahahaa;););)
                              "I'm so fresh and you so not..." ~ Dvera


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