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The True Origin Of Thanksgiving

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  • #16
    hey... this is my thanksgiving story.

    For the past 3 thanksgivings, my family and I (the indians) had thanksgiving dinner with our nextdoor neighbors, the were originally from england (the pilgrims). So it was like reliving it in a modern sence but they didn't kill us! :p :D ! So it was the indians and the pilgrims. But this year it will be different they had to move beack to england... Pretty funny story!

    -Kelli
    If you lose the drum beat of the creator, you are lost in life - Aanishnabe

    You say I don't look indian? Well you don't look stupid, but looks can be deceiving!

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    • #17
      Kelly (Theresa's friend). Many Europeans do still hold a grudge against each other..France, England for example, but there are others that feel the same too. Australian aboriginies are in much of the same boat we are in, Ireland is still at wars with itself over England's influence. Turkey suffered alot and still hold grudges. The fact that Native Americans use white man's tools so to speak (wearing clothes, working the jobs, joining the military) were all a part of assimilation. How can we avoid these things today and still survive? My people wore clothes diffently...would we not be arrested for indecent exposure today if we wore our traditional wrap around buckskin skirt with no top? Many of the things the pilgrims did because they were scared. They got told stories of hostile who were godless and murderous and reacted in paranoia and fear. People simply fear what they dont understand, that is why some were burned as witches amongst their own kinds. And just so you know, not all whites know their history, not all blacks know their history, and not all native americans know their history..but even just as important, not all of us know each other's history. But if you would rather live your life with the lies that you were taught about things like Thanksgiving to make your world a happier place, then just close your eyes like so many do and go on believing that the pilgrims loved us all and shared food and had one big ole party and feast. We are not unaccustomed to that line of thinking...that is what we complain about the most. I don't think most of us are looking for apologies, but acknowledgment and a change for the better. How would you feel if someone moved into your backyard, and then invited more folks to come live there and then more and more came till they were not just in your backyard, but in your front yard, and in your garage and then they wanted your home and made you move somewhere else that was smaller and ineffecient and too far from your say..grocery store, gas station, mini-mall so that you had to travel a long way to get the things you needed, but when you left the house, you were told you could'nt go anywhere, that you had to stay there...then they tell you, well we will bring you the things you need but they bring you crap food, crap clothing, crap in general and that is only if they decide to bring it to you instead of selling it or giving it to their friends? Now this happened to you, and then your children, and then your grandchildren and so on...don't you think you would have a PROBLEM with it? So does it still sound like complaining over nothing? Or do you still see it as something to just "get over"? If these things were'nt still going on today, then maybe it would be a different story.
      Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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      • #18
        Theresa/Kelly

        Everything you have written exemplifies the way of thinking of the majority of people in this country. Your linear thinking permeated every word you wrote. We native people think circularly, a concept which is very hard for many non native people to understand.

        I dont condmen white people. I dont hate white people for the past. Today IS today adn yesterday was yesterday BUT as all things in life, everything happens in circles. Those circles of the past have not healed or been "closed" They are still gaping wounds in our minds and hearts.

        We dont want retribution, money, immaterial things in exchange for the past. BUT how you can you proclaim for us to move on, get on with our lives, quit licking old wounds and lets live in peace, love, and harmony when you dont heal the past first?

        It is so convenient for the majority of people to say..forget about it, it was 400 years ago, its the past we're living now, brush it under the rug and get on with your life and live for today and the future. YOu see to your people the past is just that, the past. A story from some time ago that is read, learned and then move on to the next subject. To us the past is as still alive today as it was yesterday. SO what would a typical response to that be? Oh just let it die already and move on..sorry but we dont think that way and we will not get on with our lives until those wounds are healed.

        DO you think that we still dont suffer today? Why dont you check out the FORCED RELOCATIONS that are happening at Black Mesa right now, not the 1800's. Or how about the Micmac fisherman who are getting run over by huge corporate fishing boats because the lobster catches are more abundant on their land, so the courst say well. this is our land but you dont own the river, waterways, we do? Or how about the devatstating number of native women who were sterlized under the false pretnese of a dental check up, ensuring they would never have children again. No kids, no generations, no tribe, the land goes back to the government. OR how about the many unsolved murders and rapes of native men and women that happen all over the country. Its not an issue of manpower or police underfunding, its noone cares, just another dead indian or the whining indian women who are being reapeatedly raped(in alaska) and then told to go home and quit crying and drinking then they wont have to worry about the happening to them.

        You need to open your eyes to what is happening TODAY as well as YESTERDAY. These history lessons are something from the past because we are still living it today! Ever notice how you NEVER hear bout anything that happens in ndn country on the news? why is that? why is it that you dont hear about the highest suicide rate in the U.S. beign amongst native children, or how about the higest domestic violence and child abuse rate being amongst our people. WHy didnt you hear about the experimental drugs that were used on native kids without parental consent by the govt 5 years ago? Well after the statute of limitations that would have allowed the tribes to do somethign about it adn now these children are in there early teens and have severe phyiucal problems as a result.

        Dont tell me to quit living in the past. Yes, we are human beings, we make mistakes and there are things wrong with our people jsut as much as there are with any other race of peope who walk this earth. BUt we are sick and tired of being told to shut up, brush the past under a rug and get on with our lives, nothing can be done to change what happened. What is wrong with knowing the truth? why cant people teach and speak the truth? because they dont want to face the reality of it. Ignore it and maybe it will go away, sorry but its not going to go away and as long as people buy into some fantasy story, and people propogate false history then you are as much a part of that mask which has been placed over this countries history. In effect, what you have done is what countless of other non native americans tell us to do to this day "Shut up and quit your whining" Im sorry if you cant handle the truth. Maybe you should move to Disney world, thats a place more suited to this fantasy world and plastic society.
        A Warrior without character is nothing more than a brute.

        I have lots of freinds, you just cant see them:)

        Comment


        • #19
          Kelly,
          You ask why we can not live as one people, your statements clearly demonstrates why.

          Your ignorant holier than thou attitude creates dishormony.

          "400 hundred years ago is not today" maybye not for you, what do you know about walking in a red man/womans skin? Why do you see Riverwinds paper "pure anti-white"? Because he told the truth?

          Why is he responsible to defend the white mans position? are our historys in your school books? no just yours and your perspectives.

          The position of the white man is/was that the elite white (not all white) are colonizers, land rapist, greedy, materialistic..........................perhaps -"the plausible explanation of why the white man was such an a--hole?" (your words)do ya think so?

          You say "other races failed-and still fail- to do for themselves" What is your mearure of failure? We are still here after hundreds of years of calculated GENOCIDE.

          The white man b*mbs whoever he wants for oil.....power.....land....hmmmmmmm................ .oh ya.. but.. their giving them food ???? how humanitarian.

          Comment


          • #20
            I been thinkin'. It hurts! :D Ayyyeee!

            No really, I get like this sometimes.

            Is this really Theresa/Kelly?
            There was some person awhile back that just loved to incite. He used multiple user names.
            Hmmmm....

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            • #21
              Yes, My name is Theresa and my friend's name is Kelly. We use the same computer (as we live in the same house). No Fakes Here.

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              • #22
                Good posting once again Riverwind... you said what I wanted to say only clearer and more understandable. Thanks!
                Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear... just sing, sing a song.sigpic

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                • #23
                  :D
                  I saw the movie SQUANTO !!! But the closing scene of the movie was the gathering to feast, as always !!! Thank you Thank you Thank you Riverwind!
                  smile with me today ! I'll see
                  you in tomorrow, and we can laugh
                  at all our yesterdays.......

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    To Kelly:

                    Trying to explain things to someone like you is a waste of energy and good typing space.......well-spoken ignorance is the scariest because it fools the ignorant one into believing that she is intelligent.

                    Two-cents

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                    • #25
                      What I see in Kelly's essay is not so much ignorance as defensiveness. As a newspaper columnist, I've dealt with comments such as this for many, many years. Kelly represents that part of the white population who is just as much a victim of the harsh past as the Native people.

                      The people who admonish others to forget the past are those who cannot deal with the guilt of the past. They have not been allowed to heal, just as the people who were the victims of the past have not been allowed to heal. Another columnist, Leonard Pitts, Jr. (who is African American), wrote a pretty good essay on just this thing. Here's a short section:

                      Stop talking history, they say. Don't bring up my father's sins. Concentrate instead on all the things that are wrong in your community here and now.

                      As if those pathologies had come from nowhere, appeared fully formed one sudden day, had not earthly connection to eight generations of slavery and three more of Jim Crow.


                      Something Kelly - and others who may share her ideas - may want to think about is that the present IS the past. I didn't sign away my ancestor's land but I must live with the consequences of their actions. So must white people.

                      Telling the true story of Thanksgiving is not about blaming white people. It is about letting all of America grieve together for our tragic past. Would we tell the people who lost loved ones in the World Trade Center to "get over it"?! it's in the past?! pull yourselves up by your bootstraps?! No, we fly in psychologists from all over the U.S. to help them deal with the trauma and the grief. When were Indian people allowed to deal with the trauma and the grief?? Where were the psychologists?? All we got was people telling us to forget it and move on. How helpful is that?

                      Kelly has to do as much healing as anyone else. She has to realize that nobody is blaming her for the past just by telling a truth. She has to realize that a confession is far more cleansing to a soul than harboring a lie and masking it with contempt. And she must realize that only through healing our past can we move toward a better future.
                      Not better. Not worse. Just different.

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                      • #26
                        Lngfthr,

                        Very well said! Thank you.
                        SHAKE IT!!!!

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                        • #27
                          Dang lngftr, whatta reply!Awesome:) :) :)

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                          • #28
                            Kelly, here. NOT Theresa, and not some inciter.

                            I too thank the newspaper columnist who expressed my feelings so much better than I, and made me think so much deeper than I allowed myself to before. Clearly I am not THAT intelligent. But I am as tired of my people being blamed as you are of yours being told to shut up about it. I am saddened to know there is still such madness going on- Black Mesa, Micmac, experimental drugs, etc.

                            When I wrote of whites being the elite of the day, I didn't do so believing it was right or good. It simply seems to be the case. Whether by chance or merit, white people's culture is the predominant in this country. White government rules. Like Rome's empire and Egypt's, and all "great" societies throughout history, it came at a high cost not only to your people, but to others of many races and to our own.

                            You don't seek retribution. What do you seek? What can help your wounds heal? What can I do to help that happen? Some people read my post and saw me as some white jerk who had no compassion for the Indian people. That is not true. I did go off on tangents in a few places, as did Riverwind when he suggested I live in Disneyland. Emotions spark many misunderstandings, and not so well thought out words, as do conversations that take place from behind a computer screen where people's eyes and body postures and all the things that make communication complete are missing.

                            I have to go to a live chat now, but I will come back under my own sign in if possible, or always identify myself under Tee's name if not.

                            More than anything I do not want anger and misunderstanding to flourish. So I apologize if my previous words were taken harshly. They were not meant as such.

                            -Kelly

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              The True Origin of Thanksgiving

                              Great research paper. Being brought up in the non-native world, I didn't get to hear the true history of our country.
                              I figure even if you did get a lot of negative feedback around campus -they read it.
                              I was told a small part of the true history last year around this same time. Yes it disappointed me to know the truth, yes it took the fun out of Thanksgiving, but that's okay because now I know the truth. This year I will be going to see my children and grandchildren up North at Thanksgiving time. And yes I will be eating turkey and dressing and adding many more pounds to my butt. BUT this year (with your permission) I will also have your research paper with me. This year my children, my grandchildren, my mother, my sister and all of her children will know the true origin of Thanksgiving. Thank you for sharing it. God Bless You
                              musespirit
                              Junior Dancer
                              Last edited by musespirit; 10-18-2001, 05:05 AM.
                              If the horse is dead, dismount.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I commend you lngfthr for your patience and your well-written post. Unfortunately, I posted at a time when I had run out of patience. Since I work in an education-related field, and since my university days are not very far behind me, I had all I could take of replies like Kelly's a long time ago. It's the same thing over and over, and if the ones who do this would only stop and think about what they are saying then maybe we would all be better off. Sometimes it's not just about being uniformed, or needing to heal, some people just do not think very deeply about things, and no matter what their intentions are, they come off sounding ignorant and insensitive, and most times disrespectful. I remember one girl in one of my ethics classes went off in a class about how terrible the men were that got drafted and sent to Vietnam....she said they didn't have to go do all the things they did and kill innocent people, that they had a choice. There happened to be a wife of a disabled Vietnam Vet in that class who really took offense to that, and when she said her piece to that girl, the girl's response was, "Well no one put a gun to their head and told them they had to go!" This is the same girl who went off just like Kelly did about the same subject......I automatically associate people who say the same things that Kelly did with this girl, and the countless others like her, who use the same tired old arguments, don't think before they speak, offend alot of people and then come back and say they were uniformed and that their emotions got the better of them. That is my own personal hang-up, but it keeps being reinforced when I read drivel like what Kelly wrote.

                                What kills me is that we, as Indian people, are always expected to keep quiet about our history with the US....we are labeled as whiners or whatever when we try to correct inaccuracies in how history is portrayed....it's like the truth doesn't matter because people just don't want to think about anything anymore unless it is positive and "makes them feel good." The Holocaust is studied at length in alot of history classes, all the atrocities are documented in great detail, but the ONLY reason they are studied like they are is because someone else besides the US committed all these atrocities. Many of the same things that were done to Jewish people were done to Indians here, but no one wants to talk about them or document them because they say it doesn't matter now because that happened in the past.

                                Sorry this was off the subject slightly, but I needed to give some background on why I feel the way I do. Hopefully I can re-read lngfthr's post and re-learn patience. I'm glad you said what you did lngfthr.....very thoughtful.

                                Two-cents
                                Two-cents1
                                Junior Dancer
                                Last edited by Two-cents1; 10-18-2001, 11:39 AM.

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