Trading for Feathers and other regalia items?

[contemptradish]

hi. good topic. this made me think of something. how do people feel about gifting non- natives with eagle feathers? or even, what are the laws along those lines?

-nicky

[Beardancer]

interesting topic Rich, I've often wondered how the whole feather thing goes. I been taguht one way and learned another. First, I was taught that you had to earn each feather you were given-which, I can see would be fitting, paying honor to the person who earned it and respect to ther bird who gave it. One problem with this idea however, if you have to earn each feather for a great deed performed than by the looks of some of the bustles around, there are some saints among us Also , I've seen children with full eagle bustles-now I know @#$% well, they haven't been on the planet long enough to do all those good things!! Anyway, I've seen people trade for feathers and its realy on a case by case bases and who you want to trade with. As for gifting feathers to the Whiteboy (namely me), even if I saved every child out of a burning orphanage, a DNR goon with an attitude could through me in the slammer! We can't have them unless a) Your a Falconer, or b) bring them from overseas into the U.S. with the proper paper work. Tell me what ya'll think!!
Doug

[BPlenty]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Beardancer:
interesting topic Rich, I've often wondered how the whole feather thing goes. I been taguht one way and learned another. First, I was taught that you had to earn each feather you were given-which, I can see would be fitting, paying honor to the person who earned it and respect to ther bird who gave it. One problem with this idea however, if you have to earn each feather for a great deed performed than by the looks of some of the bustles around, there are some saints among us Also , I've seen children with full eagle bustles-now I know @#$% well, they haven't been on the planet long enough to do all those good things!! Anyway, I've seen people trade for feathers and its realy on a case by case bases and who you want to trade with. As for gifting feathers to the Whiteboy (namely me), even if I saved every child out of a burning orphanage, a DNR goon with an attitude could through me in the slammer! We can't have them unless a) Your a Falconer, or b) bring them from overseas into the U.S. with the proper paper work. Tell me what ya'll think!!
Doug </font>

So you don't think any child has earned an eagle bustle huh? How insulting!!!! How do you know what that child has done or better yet gone through in their life? You don't!! I've seen little kids Sun Dance. Do they deserve to wear an eagle bustle? You're darn right they do! I'm not going to name names, but there was a young boy from Eagle Butte who lost both parents in an accident and the community presented him with an Eagle bustle for all that he had gone through. Feathers are earned for good deeds so to speak, but they also tend to come to you when you need them the most. So before you go around judging/condemning children or anyone else for that matter who has eagle feathers, maybe you should talk to them first and not act out of petty jealousy. That's all I have to say.

[DCP]

Day-yamn, Scott! You know, if you keep holdin' your feelings back, you'll develop ulcers.

[Beardancer]

Well, allow me to retort! First, I'm not jealous about not having feathers, I don't feel I've done enough to deserve one, let alone a bustle. Second, I'm not bashing on children and their triumphs-I do everything I can for the kids, big brothers club, boy scouts the whole nine yards. What I'm saying is that values are different with different people when it comes to the receiving of feathers. For example, a man in my unit in 82nd ABN who went multiple engagements and saw buddies pass dances along side me. He wears a bustle out of turkey feathers and doesn't possess a single eagle feather-when I asked him why he said the same thing I say-we haven't the right. You should truly check YOUR values prior to awarding feathers or just "passing them down the line". The line of "oh this was my friends bustle" or "my buddy gave this to me" are to say the least FAR TOO COMMON.
Think about it
Doug
"All the Way"

[RW]

Holly! I believe that children should start out in Hawk, goose or Swan feather bustle and work there way up to Eagle, but if the Bustle is gifted you have to use it! I am only 23 years old, but I have been given unuff eagle feather for a war bonnet to the ground!! I try to give away what I feel needs to be passed, but spasific feathers I keep aside, and use when I pray in a sweat, dance or whatever. I know there are children who have been given gifts and its proper they wear them, but I know of some kids that just ask there older buddies, hey when you get that eagle can ya give me a few feathers for my gear. Its hard to say what folks have earned. ALL I know is what I HAVE earned and what I wear! I have had guys question me about my gear and feathers sayin " you cant wear all those, Your to young" I usually say see all those Elders and Family members there on the dance floor, the drums and the Bleachers.. Tell them that!! that usually gets em!! LOL!

See, I personally believe that the feather and regalia items gifted should be done so Publicly, so there are what we call "witnesses" and they are " payed" at the giveaways when the items are gifted, so that they remember and if need be will vouch for ya.
There are laws I guess, acourding to the Fish N' Game folks that says we cant give them to Non-Registered Natives or Non Indians. I think thats kinda goofed up, but who am I to question the great white Father in Washington!! LOL!! hahaha Take care you guys and be nice! dont make me take your feathers!! LOL!!

Rich

[tigger]

i was gifted an eagle feather last year after my son died. i didn't feel right accepting it since i am not of native blood but not to accept it would have been an insult. so i accepted it and later on in the year i passed it on to a family that i thought deserved it more then i.


keith

[RW]

Trading for Feathers and other regalia items?

I have noticed that there has been alot of discussion about feathers and Trades for feathers and other regalia items, and It made me think.. Hmmm?? Wonder if that would make a good topic??

I personaly think Trading is great.. as long as both sides get somthing that is equal value to the persons invalved.. Its the old way of doing things in my view, so I prefer it to buying anything. I know in the matter of feathers there are legal issues around the topic of Trading for them, but Its my Understanding acording to the fish n' game guys that we Natives can gift eachother these feathers for dancing or ceremonies, but I dont think payin cash is good at all! I try to give away feathers, Cloth, Hides and beadwork I cant use.. or I feel needs to be gifted out to a new owner.These items are suposed to be used and appreciated.
I just thought it might trigger a good discussion or give folks a chance to vent and inform! LOL!
Take care
Rich

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[wardancer]

B-Plenty : I would have to say that you are very correct about some children. But I would also say that I've seen the worst as well ! I have seen younger children in full size Eagle Bustles , that don't know the first thing about taking care of them. Dad got a bird and built the bustle for his son , and the son drags it around , bangs into things , and when it starts looking bad , Dad builds him another.( I try not to judge , but this is an observation and certainly no jealosy involved)I realize that some children have every right to wear one , but I think they should be taught the proper care and respect for it FIRST. My own son will NOT get one of Eagle until I am sure he will care for it as I do mine. And I have enough Eagle feathers for his ! I think he needs a couple more years , and alittle more teaching , and then I'll build him an Eagle bustle.
On the same note , I waited along time before one of our tribal elders presented me with my first set. Since then I've recieved several wing sets and passed-on 2 finished bustles , and both of the people I gave them to , take the best possable care of them.
On the subject of gifting to non-NDNs , The government says we can't , but since when do we listen to them. If the feeling is there then I'll gift one. I don't do this often , but I don't ask for a tribal card before doing it either.
R.W. I think trading is great! whatcha got-whatcha need ? P.M. if you want to keep it "legal".

[itokasniye]

So ya can bring them back from overseas? Anyone ahve any more legal info on this? I hear they have some pretty wild looking feathers overseas.