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Carrying feathers legally

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  • Blackbear
    replied
    Yeah same here..have been enrolled since birth..that is why I was asking , cause I am not really familiar with CDIBs....but that does make sense. Thanks.

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  • lngfthr
    replied
    You know, I've not had any experience with getting a CDIB or anything like that. We just get enrolled in our tribes around here. But I would say that a CDIB is the same as tribal enrollment for these purposes. As long as you're recognized by a bona fide legal entity as being Native, I would think that would hold up.

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  • Blackbear
    replied
    Originally posted by lngfthr
    Well, I added the disclaimer "(or, possibly, enrollable)" because - like I said earlier - I don't know if there's been an actual case that's been tried. But, essentially, I think a person who is at least enrollable would likely "pass the test" and be allowed to own feathers but a person who is not enrolled or enrollable anywhere (no matter how much blood he or she actually has) would be considered just as "non-Native" as a white person. Like I said, sovereignty is based on a political affiliation, not a racial or ethnic one. I'm guessing it's similar to the protection of the Indian Child Welfare Act, which wouldn't apply to a child who is not enrollable in any tribe (no matter the amount of actual Indian blood). Again, just my opinion based on my understanding of the issues.
    But does'nt the BIA give CDIB to those that can prove the blood quantum but not able to be enrolled? I am curious...I have cousins who are half, but by our customs, you are what your mother is...clan and tribe...so since their mother is white, they are not enrolled (at least by our rez, but were enrolled at another because of our grandfather's side).

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  • Geronimoose!
    replied
    You got that right!

    Hey right on Tipis sugar! State recognized don't me sniddly snot to the feds, and I seen a bunch of them "Indians" over on the east coast sportin around in great big eagle feather bustles and hawk feahter visors and shoulder fans etc. Looks like prime territory for the feds or even local state fish and game rangers to do some collecting. Aaaaaayeeeee!

    Leave a comment:


  • tipis
    replied
    Having been hit by the "feather police" and that is a long story, I would not carry any feathers you do not have a permit for or otherwise. I have seen a dance busted and everyone having to show papers and I have seen what Fish and Game can do to a house looking for feathers.

    State recognized does NOT come under the feather permitting law for Natives. You must be from a Federally recognized tribe.


    And as for OWL....it maybe your totem, but to MANY tribes it represents death or bad luck and they will not dance or enter an area that has these feathers. You are better off leaving them home.

    tipis

    Leave a comment:


  • lngfthr
    replied
    Well, I added the disclaimer "(or, possibly, enrollable)" because - like I said earlier - I don't know if there's been an actual case that's been tried. But, essentially, I think a person who is at least enrollable would likely "pass the test" and be allowed to own feathers but a person who is not enrolled or enrollable anywhere (no matter how much blood he or she actually has) would be considered just as "non-Native" as a white person. Like I said, sovereignty is based on a political affiliation, not a racial or ethnic one. I'm guessing it's similar to the protection of the Indian Child Welfare Act, which wouldn't apply to a child who is not enrollable in any tribe (no matter the amount of actual Indian blood). Again, just my opinion based on my understanding of the issues.

    Leave a comment:


  • CamethystOwl
    replied
    Looks like I have some research ahead of me also... My tribe isn't federally recognized... we're only state so far. It's all one big mess. I am a member and have documentation. So does anyone know of those circumstances? Is it possible that I could even get these permits? :( People make something so simple very hard these days...

    Leave a comment:


  • Blackbear
    replied
    That is a good question!! I have wondered that myself.

    Leave a comment:


  • MWP
    replied
    Ingfthr,

    Just because I want to understand what you are saying, could you clarify something? You said it's an issue of sovereignty, therefore, what matters is enrollment. Does that mean that a Native person who is not enrolled in a recognized tribe (even if they are or near a full blood), they cannot possess the feathers?

    Leave a comment:


  • lngfthr
    replied
    It raises an intersting question if the White person was legally adopted by a Native as a child. I don't know the answer there.
    The reason Native people are exempt from not owning feathers is because of sovereignty. Because we used feathers long before the laws were created, it was understood that we would continue to have that right. When we look at sovereignty, we have to remember that it is more of a political designation than a racial or ethnic one. So, it doesn't matter if a person is adopted legally. It matters if a person is enrolled (or, possibly, enrollable). Like I said earlier, I don't think an Indian possessing feathers without a permit is a type of legal case any lawyer would want to even take on and that's probably why the issue is so murky - kind of like state-tribal jurisdiction. JMIO...

    Leave a comment:


  • Kiwehnzii
    replied
    I don't think that anybody gets slammed for asking questions.

    I believe it is a matter of giving false information to the readers.Those are the ones that deserve to be slammed.

    I wouldn't slam anybody for asking.

    Leave a comment:


  • musespirit
    replied
    :Cry It's really sad when people have to worry about getting "slammed", embarrased or the feeling of rejection just for asking a question. This is not good for anyones self-esteem.

    Leave a comment:


  • MWP
    replied
    As far as I know, no white person can possess eagle feathers, period. The only exception to this would be if the person has documentation that proves that the feathers were collected before the law went into effect or of the person is a falconer that can and does use eagles. It doesn't matter if you were given them by a Native person or if you call a Native person uncle/auntie or if you found them on your own land or whatever, whites just can't have them. Again, this is just the way it has been explained to me. I'm by no means an expert.
    It raises an intersting question if the White person was legally adopted by a Native as a child. I don't know the answer there.

    Leave a comment:


  • ogapahndn
    replied
    A member of this site sent me a pm and asked me a question about this topc. They didn't want to ask it themselves because they didn't want to get slammed by anyone. So, I will ask it for them! They are white but were adopted by a native family at birth. They have been raised following native traditions. During their life they have been gifted with eagle feathers from family members. They know what it means to have feathers. As I said they were raised learning these traditions. Their question is, after reading some of the comments on here they are wondering if they need permits or can even obtain them to carry their feathers. Anyone have any idea?

    And HEY!!! Don't burn me! Don't kill the messenger! lol

    Leave a comment:


  • grayback
    replied
    Since the Fish and Wildlife websites are still down because of the court restrictions, here are the addresses and phone numbers for the 7 regional migratory bird permit offices. If you are looking for information about these birds, or places for further information about protected species, try giving these folks a call. They cover Federal regulations only. Dig out your local phone book and look under the Government pages for the phone number of your State Fish and Wildlife service to get state regulations about various species.

    U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service,
    Migratory Bird Permit Offices:

    Region 1
    MBHP/ARW
    Eastside Federal Building
    911. N.E. 11th Avenue
    OREGON
    (503) 872-2715

    Region 2
    P.B. Box 709
    Albuquerque, NM 87103-0709
    (505) 248-7883

    Region 3
    Bishop Henry Wipple Federal Building
    1 Federal Drive, Box 45
    Ft. Snelling, MN 55111-0045
    (612) 713-5438

    Region 4
    P.O. Box 49208
    Atlanta, GA 30359
    (404) 679-7051

    Region 5
    P.O. Box 779
    Hadley, MA 01035-0779
    (413) 253-8641

    Region 6
    P.O. Box 25486, DFC
    Denver, CO 80225
    (303) 236-8171, ext. 616

    Region 7
    1011 E. Tutor Road, Room 155
    Anchorage, AK 99501
    (907) 786-3311

    Hope that helps some folks out there.

    -grayback

    Leave a comment:

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