Where did the Duck-n-Dive REALLY come from???

[Kakeeya]

Hey Dat1NdnGuy,
I agree with ya buddy! I was at a powwow once and this beginner drum sang this song and they turned it into a sneak up. Well needless to say, that drum got into trouble big time by the Nez Perce men that were in attendance and told the story of how that song came from the Nez Perce and they should sing it the way that it is meant to be and to not change or modify it in anyway.
WhoMe: People shouldn't always believe what Dale Oldhorn has to say!! :D Just kidding!!

[Speedy™]

Saw the DucknDive twice before, each time it was very cool. I'm a Tradish dancer who wouldn't mind learning the specifics of that dance. Any guidelines or tips from one who dances it often?

[lightningflash]

I heard there's going to be a Duck'n'Dive dance contest at next year's Gathering of Nations powwow!

[Dat1NdnGuy]

Originally posted by Wakalapi
I've heard only TWO Duck-and-Dive songs, and one of those I've only heard one time. The other is the "standard" that it seems all drums sing for this dance. The "duck-and-dive" is done during a single, loud honor beat that follows the regular honor beats. Around here, anyway, since it is almost always (99.9999% of the time) the same song it is easy to memorize this.

Some of the western Washington powwows are fairly lax about it, but I know that in eastern Washington (i.e. closer to Nimipu territory) the MC's usually do ask everyone to stand and for no one to record or take pictures during the song. I've seen it done for Men's Tradish contest and for a whole lot of Chicken Dance specials.

I remember there being somewhat of an online debate a few months ago over this being a Crow-originated dance.

YUP....There was a major debate........and ain't no one the face of this earth gonna ever be able to convince me that it all started with them crows...sorry and no disrespect intended but I find that highly doubtful. Of course there are ALOT of similarities between Nez Perce and Crow stuff, but I won't bother getting into all that. :D

[WhoMe]

According to powwow announcer Dale Old Horn:

The duck and dive was done as a way to recount a battle that the Crow fought. He said, "when that Crow war party would hear the loud shot of the bullets (symbolized by the hard beats of the drum) they would duck to make them miss. The surviving warriors came back to camp and gave this account."

The Crow in turn, composed a number of songs to commemorate this war party's account. These songs can still be heard from the Mad Dogs, Might Few and Lodge Grass singers.

Crow Fair anyone? :Thumbs

[Wakalapi]

I've heard only TWO Duck-and-Dive songs, and one of those I've only heard one time. The other is the "standard" that it seems all drums sing for this dance. The "duck-and-dive" is done during a single, loud honor beat that follows the regular honor beats. Around here, anyway, since it is almost always (99.9999% of the time) the same song it is easy to memorize this.

Some of the western Washington powwows are fairly lax about it, but I know that in eastern Washington (i.e. closer to Nimipu territory) the MC's usually do ask everyone to stand and for no one to record or take pictures during the song. I've seen it done for Men's Tradish contest and for a whole lot of Chicken Dance specials.

I remember there being somewhat of an online debate a few months ago over this being a Crow-originated dance.

[Kakeeya]

I was taught to have a lot of respect for this song and it's meaning. Whenever this song comes out, most of us usually stand because of the importance of our men and warriors. I especially like to hear all of the men dancers warhoop when they go down and you can tell who knows this song and who doesn't. It is sad when going to powwows and this song comes out but very few men warhoop when they go down, looks good though anyway!! Much love and respect for our men/warriors/soldiers.

[spottedeagle]

Amen to that. Spent 6 years in the Air Force (Security Police) myself.

It is...trying too avoid being shot....hence the term duck and dive
Like I said, its originally a warriors song...nobody wants to get shot, but it happens...

Have you seen the dance before? The dancers do a type of stoop or "Dive" when the drums is singing.....then they come back up and continue to dance the whole time...it will throw you off on the steps...if you haven't danced to it before....

_________________________________


Witchery, weakening, sees the sheep are gathering, set the trap, hypnotize now you follow....METALLICA-Leper Messiah

[spottedeagle]

I always thought the origins of duck and dive came for doing just that ducking and diving for cover. LOL!!;) :Chatter

The old duck and dive is a Nez Perce dance. It is a warriors dance primarily, but has been a traditional song now for all northern plains style dancers. It has been around for a long time. I haven't seen it in a long time myself as I don't see many pow-wows, but I know that its a great song and whenever the Emcee asks for folks too stand I always pay my respects too those who the song was originally made for. Thanks for bringing that up about the dance and song. Being here in the military sometimes I forget things about pow-wows goings on cause I got so much other things I have too do here, and my mind is focused on the task at hand.

:chief:
NEZ PERCE/Chief Joseph Band Descendant
Ndnsoldierboy11b

[Wakalapi]

I've been told it comes from the Nez Perce or the Crow (mostly by Nez Perce and Crow dancers, respectively :Chatter ). So .... who's got the full story? Anybody want to throw two more cents at this one?