What components Make a Tradtional Outfit

[scottlollar]

I'm talking about the actual pieces that make up your outfit. I was recently told that Northern Traditional Dancers were supposed to wear aprons that cover hip-to-hip. Now, I've been wearing a tradecloth apron for years that doesn't cover hip-to-hip. And I've had a few boys ask me pointers on dancing Tradish and what they need for their outfit. This is why i bring this up.
What kind of shirt do you use? Ribbon, frontier-style, or something else?
What kind of bustle do you use? U-style, swing, nest, etc.?
What hand articles? fans, mirror boards, shields, etc.?
what beadwork do you think is most important? Vest, drops, etc.?
How long is the breastplate? Is the breastplate necessary?
What kind of headdress? Roach, 'Mandan', fur pelt?
What kind of leggings? full leggings, angora skins, half leggins, etc.?
Anything else that is necessary for an Tradish outfit? I've heard arguement about bandoliers, belts, side drops, gauntlets & cuffs, and several other items. What do you think is the definitive item for a Tradish dancer?

Thank you all!

[scottlollar]

Ouch! 26 views and no replies. That hurt. Was it something I said? :D

[Kiwehnzii]

I'll reply

The utmost and main component is what's inside the outfit - an Indian person. If your not an Indian - then the outfit is not tradish. It's hob.

[scottlollar]

Re: I'll reply

Originally posted by Kiwehnzii
The utmost and main component is what's inside the outfit - an Indian person. If your not an Indian - then the outfit is not tradish. It's hob.

It may be simply that I misunderstood what you are saying here, because electronic forums are never good at expressing vocal tones. But to me, that's harsh. In fact it seems bigoted. Maybe you were just pointing out it's what is on the inside that is important. If so, I apologize for taking offense at the imagined slight. I retract my statements.

To say the outfit I wear is not Traditional, because you assume I am not Native only proves an ignorance on your part. Maybe that ignorance is set because I didn't identify myself as associated with a certain tribe. Maybe that's my fault. But to make assumptions like this is arrogant in the extreme.

Maybe I shouldn't have jumped on your statement. I simply meant to talk about what items are considered 'must-haves' for a Northern Traditional Dance Outfit. I've made most of my own or was gifted it. Several people, Native and non, have asked me questions regarding what were necessary components for the style. So, I thought, 'what better venue than powwows.com'.

I don’t know what else to say but to try to get this back on subject. I started out Old Style, but couldn’t afford the antiques that would have made the outfit feel right. So, I talked with several people about how I should change my outfit. One man made me my bustle. It is a swing-style bustle. He said because it is an older style than the U-style it would fit me better. Then I discussed the rest of my outfit with others. I used to wear some black plains-style leggings & apron with ribbon & beadwork. But, even though my grandfather handed them down to me, they were black and instead of worrying over whether I was bothering/offending the Black leggings or Black Aprons, I opted to put them away. I now wear leathers & a tradecloth apron. I carry a wing fan and dance stick, with a shield. I wear a vest gifted by a Choctaw friend of mine. And I wear a roach, a breastplate, a choker, beaded headband, redwood hair-pin, cuffs, bells, & mocs. A brand new ribbon shirt will be added this weekend.

Have a good weekend!

[WICAPI WANJI]

I to will reply...............

In regards to your statements i will say this, you are approaching this matter in a completely eurocentric way. True NDNs or what we call on the west coast "SKINS" dont log onto web sites to find our "indian heritage" or "indianess". Although it seems that you might be "native" I think what kiwehnzil was trying to point out is that youve got to be "skin" and not the blond hair blue eyed type of oh i have high cheek bones and my skin is a pinker shade of white so i must be indian because my great great grandmother was a cherokee princess. When you go to powwows you know whos lost and whos "SKIN" . Nobodies fooling anybody when the cards are on the table and everybody can see whats what. And it is also true of our own, we have let the competition aspect of dancing and singing take hold of most if not all of our powwow scene, but it could be worse . I personally would like to see the good time powwows come back i here they have them up north somewhere but nowhere around here in so cal. But to get back to the regalia subject if you go to powwows then figure it out you'll see true SKINS out there with heads held high red skin and the most impressive regalia you will ever see. Then of course you'll see the wasicus out there as well with there thrown together boy scout regalia, thinking they fit in with "there people" when in fact there people are all the way across the FREAKEN atlantic ocean......that is all i have to say.....DOKCA...... :Yell

[spottedeagle]

I have seen this thread on here for a while and have seen what others have posted, I feel now is my turn to speak my piece.

I'd like to remind all of you that this website is here in my opinion to be used as a learning and teaching tool as well as for us to discuss our opinions on matters, as well as shared information. Too many people here feel we should not discuss certain topics, because "wanna-be" will learn "our secret ways"!!! If someone has it in their heart to learn our traditions respectfully, I have no problem teaching them what I have learned. I would hope there are others here who feel the same way. It's not only about the color of our "skin" that is the reason we dance at powwows. It is about honoring grandfather/the creator and rejoicing in the fact we can gather as a native people and share our culture with others. That is why the MC at most powwows explains our dances and our dance clothing to the members of the audience. They don't do it just to hear themselves talk.

To answer Scott's question, It depends on what level as a dancer you are. I was taught as someone just starting out; a pair of mocs and a ribbons shirt is enough to enter the arbor and dance. As you are able you add to your outfit. Until your outfit is complete with the items that you feel should be part of your outfit.
But these items, as a traditional dancer should honor your tribes traditional ways.
A normal traditional outfit should include: a roach, a choker, a ribbon short, a belt, a bustle, a set of aprons, side tabs or leggings, bells or deer toes, and mocs, hand items (such as a dance stick and a fan); a breastplate and bandolier may also be included.

I hope this was of some help answering your question honestly and not sacastically like the others who have answered you.

Yes the best place to go for advice is a tribal elder. But there are also other ways of learning.

[WICAPI WANJI]

allow me to retort.......

Dont get me wrong, i to beleive that we sing and dance at powwows as well as other places to honor tunkasela and to give thanks as well as to gather as indigenous people, but thats where we differ. Our people have gathered like this for centuries, there again i say our people!! Its not a fact of whether or not the "wannabes" learn our "secret ways" they already have!! Christ you can buy books on the subject matter, you have wasicus running sweat lodges with there new age buddies claiming cherokee pride (but speaking a *******ized version of sioux) which they learned from some freaken movie. This is totally unacceptable!! I for once would like to go to a "gathering" where our people can gather and celebrate as indigenous peoples (hence the subject of the good time powwow in my last letter) Although I do understand that we profit from the massive amounts of tourist dollars put into such events but thats another subject. My point is, is that theyve already taken land, lives, and liberty....and now they want our culture!!! You have these wasicus bad mouthing "SKINS" behind our backs but tracing back there ancestry to some cherokee princess or some descendant of the five civilized tribes when it suits them financially or academically this has got to stop!!! You dont see me putting on a kilt and speaking with a scottish accent just because I went to see braveheart with with a couple of buddies of mine and one of them happens to be part scottish.....Im just tired of dancing side by side with these european descendants at every inner city powwow,our people call them wasicus maybe you call them brothers i dont know im not into this melting pot theory society has planned for us......that is all i have to say Dokca.............:Mad

[beefy_cheefy]

I think the guy was asking a simple question. In the dancing arena one doesn't want to look too hobbiest. Don't have to get mean. That arena is meant for celebration and social interaction with each other as Indian people. When talkin about dancing one should do it with a good heart!
However, I do know what you mean about the exploitation of Indian culture and dance. Especially by non-Indians. I have been out to Cali and back east and seen it. However, I have met other Indians (the real deal ones) that have sold out our dances and ceremonies. Look online and you will find out who and what tribe they are. Its quite sad. :(

[tcumonster]

Scott,

Seems that your question has turned into a topic that is better suited for the "Native Issues" forum. :)

I think I am in the same boat that you are, but I thought I would throw out my two cents worth. The current outfit that I dance with consists of a western-style ribbon shirt (the collar keeps my breastplate from digging into my neck), roach with pins, swing-style bustle, matching bone set, deer toe bandolier, leather (gold elk) leggings, mocs, and deer toe rattles. For hand items I carry a wing fan, a curved dance stick (looks like a cane), and a shield.

In regards to beadwork, my set is currently ribbonworked, but I am in the process of drawing up new patterns for a beaded set. I think the important beaded parts are the cuffs and knee bands(if you use them) followed by the side tabs and apron. I think a breastplate is important, and you always hear that a trad. breastplate is long (below the belt).

I hope this helps you out. Just for the record...I am not native and don't consider myself to be. I enjoy dancing and watching others dance and decided that I would like to learn traditional dance when I was 12. I talked to a lot of dances and went to a lot of powwows before I ever stepped into the dance arena during an intertribal. I still don't dance contests...I dance to enjoy the social aspect of the powwows and to learn about other people. Sorry if this offends anyone.

Have a good week.

tcumonster

[Nooksak]

Hi, my name is micah, and im new to this boared but would like to reply, so heres my to bits.

I am a jewish irish,plish,german, that i can not control, what i can control thought is who i want to be, i know i will never be a native it is imposile, yes i am an honarary(sp?) memeber of a tribe which i was given as gift from a friend. I am trying to learn the ways of his people and I have recently found the jjoys of dancing, I just recently started at apowwow in peroera illnois, now wher im goign with this is simple, just because i can trace my roots back to a tribe, doesint mean i cant hold the same veiws and valuse and show the same respect as someone who can. I would hope someone looks at who i am not what i am, jsut as they would like the same. Anyways just my 2 cents...



Nook