Toronto Skydome Results

[Kiwehnzii]

1st- Whitefish Jrs
2nd- Pipestone Creek
3d- Whitetail
4th- Bear Creek
5th- Snake Island

[billylongfeather]

I thought the drum contest results were a joke. I heard people booing through out. The head drum judge didn't even stand in line to shake hands with the drums......WEAK!!

Anyways i am really interested in the Brown Hornets take on things since he called schemitzun so well........I guess if you log that many hours recording you have to see something...............so Hornet what ya think about it at the skydome???

[Kiwehnzii]

Billylongfeather - Check the thread - Friendly competition in southern singing. Contests are not the reasons for singing.

Whitefish Jrs. - Harvey Dreaver's lead - need I say more?

Pipestone Creek - everyone singing their hearts out. Made 'em dance.

Whitetail - Young group but they could jam.

Bear Creek - always giving 100%. Could have placed higher but I believe one guy missed first drum roll call.

Snake Island - Another young group. Really jammin. Some of the young guys also missed roll call and were late joining some songs.

Some other great drums which could also have been in there but there were only five places. Lots of good judges. Larry Yazzie, Leon Thompson, Dale Roberts to name a few.

Sour grapes are always going to be around. too bad.:(

[chip]

:dontknow: Ahnii,

I was lucky enough to place in the singing contest in Toronto this weekend. I do have to admit that the placings were a surprise to me and most everyone I talked to afterwards.
I thought BearCreek would have had first hands down but I guess it all comes down to who was judging and what kind of styles they like.
There does seem to always be biased decisions for out of province drum groups in Ontario but maybe that will give those Ontario groups incentive to start travelling more outside of their area.
The powwow committees around here don't give the good local groups enough credit and respect. I know this from experience as I was once involved in this committee and I had a hard time convincing certain people to not charge the singers registration fees and to make sure they were all fed during the entire weekend. These simple traits of giving and respect are now absent from this powwow and others. Singers now have to pay $10 a head, with no meals provided, gas, accomodations, family expenses, and parking at $20 per day! I thought the powwow traditions were based on giving? Not at Skydome!
One other bee in my bonnet is the amount of money that this powwow generates and they still cannot offer a singing contest that is fair to all categories of song, i.e. contemporary, original, and southern.
It is too hard to judge all styles combined and there always seems to be a bias towards contemporary groups as seen in the past. There wasn't even one southern group there this year simply because of that fact.
Maybe if those who agree were to contact the committee directly through email, some things might be able to be rectified. I am willing, and I hope others are too.
Thats all I would like to say right now but I hope people respond in kind and I am also wondering what brownhornet's take is on Skydome.
Miigwech.

[ndn_blvd]

I was at sky dome this year, and it was a good pow wow
:)....
I realy wish people would just not say anything bad when people or drum groups place.......where not there for that stuff....thats called jealousy...and thats a bigg no no to our creator....all we should be doin is congad'in everyone when they place....not knockin them...people really need to grow up and really look at themselves when they knock people or drum groups for what they place, at a pow wow...

i didnt hear no boo'in when tha drum contest was called, all i heard was clapin and cherr'in...plus what kind of people would boo at a pow wow....got'z to be pretty shallow or iggnitt....man ndn'z r startin to get like white people with all tha hate'in and jealousy these days at pow wow'z....why can people just be happy for other people when they winn.....

Were we really taught to be that way at pow wow'z.....people r realy for gettin what pow wow'z r all about these dayz

So just because u didnt think a drum group shouldnt have won...or how much of a joke u thought it was...doesnt mean u can't be happy for that drum....and congrad them with honesty and sencerity...and dont just acknowledge tha lead singer...all tha singerz on a good drum group are singin thier ***'es off....so give acknowledgement too all tha singers...even though thier lead singer may be bad ***....like harvey dreaver:p ........So cut all this hate'in on here....be good to one an other....peace
:Angel:

[singer21]

well first of all i dont think peeps should be all hating on our own people....yes at times we all dont agree with the places at powwows especially with the drum contest....cuz powwows are too political and no matter how good you sound theres still gonna be someone who thinks otherwise....and thats just the truth...you can jamm all weekend and still get the gate but you have to get use to it after a couple of times....but as for whitefish jrs ....man you have a lead singer 100 times as better as harvey dreaver....you can a have a solid crew but if you have a weak lead singer ....it just wont work...so lets just be happy for one another and congrad the winners and not boo them....i know how it feels to be booed and it doesnt feel good ...it just ruins the weekend....so congrads to whitefish jrs, pipestone creek, white tail,bear creek, and snake island!!!

peace!!!!

[hoksila]

What I am wondering is if you have complaints about the powwow, why not say so right there at the time being? The head judge is always available for complaints, that's what they get paid for. If you think that these five drums were not good enough to place, tell them to their faces, and tell them how they can do better. I'm sure these top five are always looking for constructive criticism. I mean who doesn't. Even the best can always be better.

People that use this web board for a way to vent their feelings about an individual or a group are really not doing anything, because most of the people that read these have no idea who you are. So I say confront these groups or person you want to speak with.

For all the negative comments about the head judge. Why not go check points? Are people not happy withe the judges that were used? Personally I think that Larry Yazzie, Leon Thompson, and Dale Roberts are guys who know their stuff, and have been around for awhile. Once again, the head drum judge gets slack if the contest isn't picture perfect. But I say if you don't like the powwow don't show up next year. It's all a matter of choice. Congrats to all the winners!


~~

[just hangin']

Congratulations to the winners!!! I'm sometimes surprised at the attitudes displayed by some singers on this board...The singers I know around here are sincere about their singing and about keeping a true and humble attitude. I don't know anyone who would climb on a board and start denigrating other singers who beat them in a contest. For a sour graper - perhaps your attitude shows through in your singing, or in your demeanour...But, it's never too late to change
See ya laterz... peace and all that!

[BrownHornet]

Well Folks,

The reason these people get angry on here is not because they are crying over spilled milk but because their complaints are generally valid. The problem with the whole drum contest issue is that they are never fair no matter where you go. Sometimes the good drums place and sometimes they dont. It all averages out in the end if you are a decent group.

As for the skydome contest. I personally thought it was a little laughable. I am surprised not necessarily at the winners but the order they were in. I will also add that I have heard each group present at other powwows and none were as strong as I have heard them in the past. Don't get me wrong, it was good singing and each drum had some songs that were definately on. I did not hear the consistency of "near perfect" singing all weekend.

Anyway, my evaluation.

I think Bear Creek Should have place first. They looked to have had a full crew and were pretty powerful the entire weekend. I would have placed Whitefish Jr's in the second seat. Though there lead singer is quite powerful, it appears that they were sorta half crewed this weekend. One monkey does not take the whole show, in this case it did. After the first two, I would be inclined to pick either Snake Island or Pipestone Creek. Both had good sound. I would probably lean toward Snake Island because Pipestone tended to go a little flat on the lower notes. I would have put White Tail in there somewere but in the lower positions. I have heard them sound better. They seemed to go flat pretty quickly on many of the songs this weekend. I think Eagle flight should have been in there as well. I would have tossed them up with Whitetail or maybe a little higher. Anyway, as I said before, these contests seem to work out. You will go to another powwow next weekend and place higher there. I guess thats just the way it is. The only way to fix the problem is to bring in outside, independent judges. We all know that is not going to happen so lets make do with what we got.

Keep im mind i'm pretty impartial. I listen for everything, beat, singing in key, EVERYTHING. Then I go back and listen to it again and again. I look over the politics and look for the skill. THis is my humble evaluation. Hope it doesnt tick you off!

See ya
Hornet

[Two-cents1]

I wasn't at Skydome this year, but I've attended in the past. Is the same Six Nations crew still running things? I've been to other powwows in the Six Nations area in addition to Toronto, and if the singing competition is biased in favor of out of province drum groups, then that is all the better for that comittee and the powwow's reputation. If Toronto powwow has gone back to being fair to visitors, then they will build a better attendance for their event. I've seen many times where singers or dancers have to be from that area to get a look no matter who shows up to compete. I was at Toronto's first powwow back in '92 before they moved it into the Sky Dome, and it used to be huge....had dancers and singers from South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, etc. The last time I went to the Sky Dome the out of province attendance had gone way down. Toronto is too far to travel, too expensive, and not worth the effort if visitors feel that they are not going to get a fair shake. So if the Skydome has a bias in favor of visitors, then I think that's a good thing.

As for the singing contest, like I said, I wasn't there, but I'm glad for Pipestone Creek....they are one of my favorites.

Two-cents

[SouthernDrumSinger]

I am really surprised that there were no southern drums there.....very interesting.....thought there would have been one or two.....oh well....

SDS

[The Rock]

My personal take on the singing contest. I thought it had some good judges, but the contest was decided on only 3 songs per drum for the weekend. When that happens in a contest that was that close (for some of the drums it really was) then anything can happen. One just has to look at the placings at Gathering of Nations to figure that out....there you're lucky to get judged on 3 songs....

You gotta put that down to the committee though....they gotta realize if you're gonna advertise and offer the money for a big contest, good drums are gonna show up and odds are the competition will be close so you gotta get all the judging in you can. I'm sure time constraints were a real issue though and I'm not making this an issue of blame. All the drums that placed and a few that didn't had the potential to take the whole thing. It just came down to what went down during those contest songs.

After saying that my personal picks for how they jammed throughout the whole weekend contest song or not would've been Bear Creek first. Just listening to my tapes on the way home is plenty to convince me of that. I could've seen Snake Island or Whitetail second....whitetail has the leads and an exciting style of singing, but Snake Island was just as loud with some badass songs not to mention they jammed a few old time tunes too....rocked 'em. I would've given Whitefish Jr.'s a solid 4th....Harvey's da s**t and Gary Parker's no slouch either, but they had a light crew and you could only hear those two for the most part. They still sounded very clean though....just don't really like those songs they got that go off beat....Eastern Eagle's got the same problem along with a drum (I can't remember their name) set up next to Bear Creek.

5th is a toss up for me between Pipestone Creek and Eagle Flight. Both rocked their respective styles.....I liked Eagle Flight's ddrum beat, but Pipestone sang one or two of their older songs like they just made them...sounded tough and I liked it when the ppow-wow committee asked them to sing for the two step...Vern kept it lively by goin' into new songs like he was from Oklahoma or something
;)

Still all in all it was a good pow-wow...had a lotta laughs

Laterz
Rock

[roundanceman99]

Pipestone Creek might be old.

Pipestone Creek might be old, but they could still jam with the best of them. Just look at them, it's the name that's old not the singers.... On any given day Pipestone Creek will have theirs.
and when they do, people will start turning their heads to a once popular group...so look out.


later freaks :Mad

[Kiwehnzii]

This thread is going well except for one drum-slammin' and people slammin' post.
That's the way it should be. It seems that most of posters have their personal preferences one way or another and this is good. If we all had the same likeness in drum groups the same ones would win every weekend. But it's not like that.
Every powwow has different judges. Most are chosen for their knowledge of singing and many are dancers who listen to each song carefully and watch closely to see that there is full participation. If there is some offbeat drumming, they notice it. If one singer isn't giving their all, they notice this too. They judge accordingly. Some groups pick up singers to fill their roster. Sometimes this could be an advantage. Sometimes not. If a pick-up singer doesn't know all the group's songs, then that could look bad to the judges as they notice if one is (for lack of a better word) "lip-syncing"
People who are not at every drum that is being judged cannot possibly know what is going on at that time.
The singing and beat is not the only criteria that determines how a drum places. Roll call, being on time, having a song ready, etc. is important.

[roundanceman99]

WHY DO NATIVE PEOPLE MAKE THE ASSUMPTION THAT THE NATIVE CULTURE IS ALL ABOUT WHO WINS AND WHO DOESN'T. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO WINS OR LOSES, IT'S ABOUT HOW MUCH YOU ENJOY YOURSELF AT THE GATHERING. WELL MOST PEOPLE WHO DANCE OR SING GET MAD BECAUSE THEY DON'T PLACE, IT JUST GOES TO SHOW THAT WE ADOPTED THE WHITE CULTURE SO MUCH IT AFFECTS OUR NATIVE WAY OF LIFE. IF MORE PEOPLE NEW THAT THEN WE WOULD ALL GET ALONG, INSTEAD OF HAVING PEOPLE BACKSTAB ONE ANOTHER. WE AS NATIVE PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW WHAT UNITY IS, IT'S IN OUR BLOOD. SO SHAME ON THEM PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE HIM AND DON'T LIKE HER BECAUSE SHE/HIM BEAT HIM OR THEM AT A POWWOW. PLUS WHY DO PEOPLE TRAVEL FAR AWAY IF THEY ARE BROKE. IT'S NOT ONLY A CHANCE BUT WHAT IF YOU DON'T PLACE, THEN DON'T GO. SURE YOU MIGHT THINK YOUR A THE BEST DANCER, BUT IF YOUR THAT GOOD THEN SOMEONE IS BOUND TO BE BETTER. A LOT OF DRUM GROUPS ARE LIKE THAT SO JUST BE AWARE OF WHICH DRUM GROUPS YOU ASSOCIATE WITH, BECAUSE THAT DRUM GROUP COULD SCREW YOU OVER IF YOU BEAT THEM.